# Opening an exit door at 35,000 feet **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131 "2018-03-06T18:03:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/21 "2018-03-07T04:17:25Z")
I’ve heard of at least one incident, possibly apocryphal, of a guy opening one while still waiting on the tarmac, “because it felt a bit close in here”, and everyone had to be moved to a different plane because there is considerable safety protocol that has to follow the removal of the door. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/22 "2018-03-07T04:45:06Z")
If opening the door meant a slide got inflated, then the safety protocol you mentioned would include installing a new slide. It’s not very different from getting an expensive new airbag installed after a minor front-end collision in your car. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/23 "2018-03-07T11:25:51Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > I’ve heard some people claim that “the captain reduces the oxygen to keep the passengers docile,” Such as [The Food Boob](https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/food-babe-misinformation-on-travel/). ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/24 "2018-03-07T12:16:44Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I’ve heard of at least one incident, possibly apocryphal, of a guy opening one while still waiting on the tarmac, “because it felt a bit close in here”, and everyone had to be moved to a different plane because there is considerable safety protocol that has to follow the removal of the door. Here you go: [Police: Passenger Opens Emergency Exit, Uses Slide To Leave Plane Parked At Gate At Newark Airport - CBS New York](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/02/26/newark-airport-emergency-exit-slide/) > [@](#): > > United Airlines Flight 811 was a regularly scheduled airline flight from Los Angeles to Sydney, with intermediate stops at Honolulu, and Auckland. On February 24, 1989, the Boeing 747-122 serving the flight experienced a cargo door failure in flight shortly after leaving Honolulu. The resulting explosive decompression blew out several rows of seats, resulting in the deaths of nine passengers. The aircraft returned to Honolulu, where it landed safely. > > [United Airlines Flight 811 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_811) ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/25 "2018-03-07T13:01:35Z")
The DC-10 also had major cargo door design flaws leading to multiple fatal incidents (which helped kill its passenger business): > **[McDonnell Douglas DC-10](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-10#Cargo_door_problem)** > > The McDonnell Douglas DC-10 is an American trijet wide-body aircraft manufactured by McDonnell Douglas. > The DC-10 was intended to succeed the DC-8 for long-range flights. It first flew on August 29, 1970; it was introduced on August 5, 1971, by American Airlines. > The trijet has two turbofans on underwing pylons and a third one at the base of the vertical stabilizer. > The twin-aisle layout has a typical seating for 270 in two classes. > The initial DC-10-10 had a 3,500 nmi (6,500 km) range for tra... ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/26 "2018-03-07T13:06:07Z")
Yeah, improperly secured cargo doors have caused a few crashes in history. In addition to the United Airlines incident mentioned by **bob++** , there was also [Turkish Airlines Flight 981](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981) in 1973: > [@](#): > > Owing to its large radius, the cargo hatch on the DC-10 could not open inside the fuselage without taking up valuable cargo space, so the hatch was designed to open outward, allowing cargo to be stored directly behind it. The outward-opening design would allow the hatch to be blown open by the pressure inside the cargo area if the latch failed during flight. To prevent this, the DC-10 used a latching system that incorporated “over-center latches” – four C-shaped latches mounted on a common torque shaft that were rotated over latching pins (“spools”) fixed to the aircraft fuselage. Due to their shape, when the latches were in the proper position, internal pressure on the hatch did not place enough torque to open them. The latches were engaged by electric actuators, with a hand crank provided as a backup. However, either due to wear or deliberate modification, the latching mechanism on this plane failed, the pilots lost control of the plane due to the rapid decompression, and the plane crashed into a forest. ETA: The plane in question was one of the problematic DC-10’s mentioned by **andrewm.** ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/27 "2018-03-07T14:15:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “All or most” sounds to me like “probably all of them, but we can’t track down every model of airliner used anywhere in the globe, so we’ll hedge our bet”. The term ‘modern commercial airliners’ was in there a lot too - which to me implied more like “all modern passenger aircraft for major airlines, but we can’t be sure some weird little backwater operation isn’t still using an older plane with an outward-opening door” ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/28 "2018-03-07T15:29:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The term ‘modern commercial airliners’ was in there a lot too - which to me implied more like “all modern passenger aircraft for major airlines, but we can’t be sure some weird little backwater operation isn’t still using an older plane with an outward-opening door” The very modern bizjet I fly has an outward opening main door, as did the one at my previous job. There is an internal locking device which would mechanically prevent someone from opening the door when the aircraft is pressurized. Now, if we had a loss of pressurization… I’m not sure. But one imagines the passengers would be too busy being unconscious to tamper with the door (they would have to get up and move away from their O2 masks to reach it). However, the emergency exit is of the “plug” type. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/29 "2018-03-07T15:51:54Z")
The emergency overwing exit hatches on newer 737’s are not plug type doors. That is one of the reasons it has electric powered locks to prevent opening of the hatches. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/30 "2018-03-07T18:45:31Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Yeah, improperly secured cargo doors have caused a few crashes in history. In addition to the United Airlines incident mentioned by **bob++** , there was also [Turkish Airlines Flight 981](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981) in 1973:However, either due to wear or deliberate modification, the latching mechanism on this plane failed, the pilots lost control of the plane due to the rapid decompression, and the plane crashed into a forest. > > ETA: The plane in question was one of the problematic DC-10’s mentioned by **andrewm.** I remember reading about that. It wasn’t the decompression that caused the loss of control; at least, not directly. When the cargo door blew out, the cargo hold depressurized, but the passenger cabin didn’t. The floor of the cabin wasn’t designed to withstand that pressure differential, so it collapsed downward. Unfortunately, the control cables to the tail ran through the floor, so when that collapsed the pilots lost control of the rudder and stabilizer. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/31 "2018-03-07T19:01:50Z")
Racer72, I didn’t know that! Interesting! Regarding Llama Llogophile’s and Mangetout’s comments about other non-plug doors on pressurized aircraft: I mentioned that plug doors are more structurally efficient than non-plug doors. That’s true, but that advantage diminishes when (a) the fuselage is small and (b) the door is small. Stress in a cylindrical pressure vessel (like an aircraft fuselage) is proportional to both pressure (duh) and radius. The fuselages of smaller planes (like bizjets and Bombardier regional jets) have a lot less pressure-induced force to contain than does a widebody airliner. A 787 fuselage is about 5.75 meters in diameter, while the CRJ-700’s fusealge is about 2.7 meters in diameter. To contain a given pressure[sup]1[/sup], the 787 fuselage has to resist over twice the force the CRJ must contain. A large door, as Johnny L.A. pointed out, must resist ~28 tons of force when pressurized. A door that’s half the size (such as an overwing exit or a main door on a smaller fuselage) would only have to resist ~14 tons of force. A bizjet with a small fuselage diameter and small doors can use conventional non-plug doors without nearly the weight penalty that a widebody jet would endure. But clearly, safe planes can be designed with either kind of door. [sup]1[/sup] I’m using an equal pressure in this example to keep things simple. However, to keep passengers more comfortable, the 787’s cabin maintains a pressure about 25% higher than most airliners. Its carbon-fiber fuselage allows the 787 to endure these higher pressure loads while keeping the airframe weight in check. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/32 "2018-03-07T19:06:51Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I do not believe that the main passenger door on the Bombardier regional jets operate on a plug basis. They open up and out. Perhaps one of our pilots can offer information on how those doors are prevented from opening in-flight. You’re right about CRJ’s having non-plug doors. I believe the anti-nutjob device is a thin cable that connects the interior handle to the latch mechanism. The cable acts as a mechanical fuse: the static friction in the latch mechanism is so high under pressurization that the cable will break before the latch can move. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/33 "2018-03-07T19:11:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > The term ‘modern commercial airliners’ was in there a lot too - which to me implied more like “all modern passenger aircraft for major airlines, but we can’t be sure some weird little backwater operation isn’t still using an older plane with an outward-opening door” IMHO, “modern commercial airliner” is there to mean “pressurized planes that are larger than business jets.” Cessna Caravans are unpressurized turboprops that are routinely used for passenger service, but I don’t think many people would call a Caravan (flying under FAR Part 135) a “commercial airliner.” So, Mangetout, you’re pretty close. It’s not older planes or backwater operations, per se, it’s basically smaller planes which may or may not be pressurized at all. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/34 "2018-03-07T19:11:36Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > […while screaming “I am God”](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5467755/Passenger-takes-woman-trying-open-cabin-door-flight.html). The pilot may have been thinking, “if that’s true, that door’s not going to hold – we have to stop her!” ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/35 "2018-03-07T21:14:31Z")
This might be useful for the discussion: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1AReC2P5sK8/maxresdefault.jpg "What happens if you OPEN the OVER-WING EXITS?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AReC2P5sK8) In summary, different airplanes have different designs. The plug-in window doors are popular with Airbus, smaller/older Boeings seem to have canopy window doors that open outward. Both are locked whenever the plane is in the air. Opening them would require tearing them out of the hull. The video is interesting if a bit slow. About 9 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![aa2070](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aa2070](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aa2070)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/36 "2018-03-08T01:35:16Z")
Boeing 737-800/900 series airplanes don’t use plug doors for their overwing exits. When the throttles are advanced to take-off thrust, a mechanical camlock system locks them closed. Barring that, they swing upwards on a top hinge and are reusable (unlike earlier 737 models and Airbus A320 derivatives, where you must pull the door into the cabin before tossing it out onto the wing). ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/37 "2018-03-08T01:42:28Z")
Yeah…Racer72 already mentioned that. ---
**Author:** ![aa2070](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aa2070](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aa2070)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/38 "2018-03-08T01:53:25Z")
So he did. Redacted. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/39 "2018-03-08T07:29:36Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I do not believe that the main passenger door on the Bombardier regional jets operate on a plug basis. They open up and out. Perhaps one of our pilots can offer information on how those doors are prevented from opening in-flight. Now that I think about it, the last commercial flight I went on (Southern England to Southern Spain) was on a De Haviland Bombardier - It’s a turbo prop, not a jet, but they are pressurised, and the door does open outward - depending on the exact model, the door either hinges straight down (and serves as stairs for the passengers), or it hinges outward and sideways so that steps can be wheeled up. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131/40 "2018-03-08T20:44:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, it’d take a few tons of force to pull the door in. Though I suppose that you could, in principle, do something to depressurize the cabin first. > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [27,000 to 28,000 pounds, apparently](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=832446). > [@Heracles](#): > > For those (like me, a minute ago) who don’t know what this is about: [a lady tried to open a door on a U.S. domestic flight while screaming “I am God”](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5467755/Passenger-takes-woman-trying-open-cabin-door-flight.html). Under the circumstances, it seems like it would nave been more appropriate for her to be Jack LaLanne. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-an-exit-door-at-35-000-feet/810131.md?page=3)