# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/902 "2020-08-12T00:23:36Z")
Okay let’s go back [farther](https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html) … how about a dozen years? Averages 145 reported. Indeed though the numbers reported go down more '07-'08 and before. In general though people refer to recent years when they talk about what happens “every year”, not what was more than a dozen years ago. Yes, though, while not as serious to kids as influenza usually is, at least so far, it, like influenza, can be serious to kids. Should we keep schools closed every year due to those influenza risks for kids? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/903 "2020-08-12T01:20:27Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, though, while not as serious to kids as influenza usually is, at least so far, it, like influenza, can be serious to kids. 90 deaths even with significant social isolation in four months isn’t as serious as 145 deaths in 12 months without isolation? Is that what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/904 "2020-08-12T01:39:10Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, though, while not as serious to kids as influenza usually is, at least so far, it, like influenza, can be serious to kids. Should we keep schools closed every year due to those influenza risks for kids? Are people just worried about kids dying? Or are people worried about kids dying, adults dying, even more being hospitalized from COVID19, and the long-term effects of COVID19 that still aren’t understood since we’re dealing with a novel virus? I’m not saying that everyone is being rational right now, but I don’t know anyone who is worried just about child mortality. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/905 "2020-08-12T01:41:24Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay let’s go back [farther](https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html) … how about a dozen years? Averages 145 reported. Indeed though the numbers reported go down more '07-'08 and before. In general though people refer to recent years when they talk about what happens “every year”, not what was more than a dozen years ago. The average for all 16 years is 124.875 or 125. I’m just guessing, but a doctor like Dr. Sean O’Leary, vice-chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Infectious Diseases, who wanted to be accurate might take the data from the time it was reported and use that average, especially if the numbers were sometimes volatile in certain years like in 2009, it was 288 but in 2011, it was 37. The numbers for each year hidden below because. . . tedious. > **Summary** > > 2004 47 > 2005 46 > 2006 77 > 2007 88 > 2008 137 > 2009 288 > 2010 124 > 2011 37 > 2012 171 > 2013 111 > 2014 148 > 2015 95 > 2016 110 > 2017 188 > 2018 144 > 2019 187 What I’m guessing Dr. O’Leary wouldn’t do is take an estimate of influenza deaths based on a model and compare it to reported cases of Covid-19 and compare the two because that wouldn’t be comparing apples to apples. > [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, though, while not as serious to kids as influenza usually is, at least so far, it, like influenza, can be serious to kids. Should we keep schools closed every year due to those influenza risks for kids? Dr. O’Leary’s quote with more detail. > [@](#): > > Dr. Sean O’Leary, vice-chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Infectious Diseases, told CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Monday that coronavirus cases in children should be taken seriously. > > “It’s not fair to say that this virus is completely benign in children,” said O’Leary. “We’ve had 90 deaths in children in the US already, in just a few months. Every year we worry about influenza in children, and there are roughly around 100 deaths in children from influenza every year.” > > Leary said that multiple factors have led to a recent increase in the number of coronavirus infections in children in the past couple of weeks, including increased testing, increased movement among children and a rise in infection among the general population. > > “When you see a lot more infections in the general population, you’re going to see a lot more infections in children,” said O’Leary. > > “We all have to take this virus seriously, including taking care of our children,” said O’Leary. If you extrapolate the numbers over the last few months to the entire year, Covid-10 could be more deadly to children than influenza. One of the big issues is that there is a lot that is not known about Covid-19 as versus yearly influenza. As to your question of whether schools should shut down due to influenza, that’s probably a whole thread in itself. Of course, there’s a vaccine for influenza, so it’s different. And much more is known about influenza. But I’m beginning to wonder if people knew the risks they were taking that they wouldn’t at least try to mitigate in some ways. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/906 "2020-08-12T03:17:54Z")
I highly doubt Dr O’Leary did any of that. He was more likely misquoted or misspoke. He knows that best estimates are hundreds of children in the U.S. dying from influenza each flu season and that best estimate so far is under a hundred from COVID-19. Will change but no one knows to what. I would be disappointed if he played games to spin it, more than if he was human and just misspoke. In the context of his point, kids dying from influenza is something to take seriously. COVID-19 is not “completely benign” for kids. Agreed 100% by almost everyone not named Trump. From the perspective of kids health and risks thinking of it as in the ballpark with Influenza is fair. So far worldwide less but again it might change by the 12 month mark. Might. Agreed monstro that the argument is not about kids health and what is best for them. We accept a bad flu season level of risk for kids as possible every flu season because education is worth that risk. It is more about what sort of sacrifice of their best interest is to be made based on speculations that it is possible that such significant sacrifice could benefit some adults. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/907 "2020-08-12T03:45:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I highly doubt Dr O’Leary did any of that. He was more likely misquoted or misspoke. He knows that best estimates are hundreds of children in the U.S. dying from influenza each flu season and that best estimate so far is under a hundred from COVID-19. Will change but no one knows to what. I would be disappointed if he played games to spin it, more than if he was human and just misspoke. What is this based on? You somehow know what Dr. O’Leary knows? Based on the numbers that are known, there are the CDC reported numbers of influenza deaths of children that more closely match his statement about the average deaths of children. The estimated hundreds of deaths of children from influenza is based on a mathematical model that doesn’t compare with the reported Covid-19 deaths of children since there is no comparable model for Covid-19 in children. Dr. O’Leary is not spinning the numbers He is straight up comparing average reported cases of influenza with reported cases of Covid-19 in children. btw, Fox News did almost the [identical analysis](https://www.foxnews.com/us/flu-vs-covid-19-what-is-the-relative-risk-for-children) that you just did with the same source. They underplayed the Covid-19 reported number of deaths of children by only using reported cases for children under 15 and inflated the estimated cases of influenza with the same CDC source you used which is an estimation of under reported cases. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/908 "2020-08-12T11:50:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Agreed monstro that the argument is not about kids health and what is best for them. We accept a bad flu season level of risk for kids as possible every flu season because education is worth that risk. It is more about what sort of sacrifice of their best interest is to be made based on speculations that it is possible that such significant sacrifice could benefit some adults. This year isn’t the chance of a bad flu season. It’s the certainty of one. Bad flu season has already happened: that it happens again, in the fall, is the optimistic, best case scenario. It could be worse. I accept the risk of a car accident every time I get in the car. I would change my calculations if I knew I’d get in an accident and the only question was how bad it would be. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/909 "2020-08-12T13:35:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It is more about what sort of sacrifice of their best interest is to be made based on speculations that it is possible that such significant sacrifice could benefit some adults. Adults are not the only ones benefiting from this “significant sacrifice”, though. If hospitals are swamped with sick adults, then how do we take care of kids needing hospitalization? If kids are infecting their parents and their parents become ill, who is going to take care of them? Their grandparents, who are at even more risk? Their aunts and uncles, who can’t afford to get sick themselves since they have to work to feed their own families? Is pregnant Aunt Mary supposed to be overjoyed about taking care of her COVID-shedding niblings while her sibling coughs up their lungs for two weeks? When she gets sick and suffers from a COVID-related miscarriage, is she supposed to take consolation in the fact that at least her niblings got to have socially distanced lunch in the school cafeteria? How does it benefit a kid to be self-quarantined for two weeks every time they are exposed to someone at school who is infected? Closing schools doesn’t just protect kids. It also protects communities. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/910 "2020-08-12T17:27:36Z")
[Alabama:](https://apnews.com/d3a50069d3cb1c4e07cdfd63cb81604e) > [@](#): > > More than 1,200 students at two Alabama schools will begin the year at home after a person connected with both schools tested positive for COVID-19. > > While 12 other Lawrence County schools planned to begin traditional classes Wednesday, Superintendent Jon Bret Smith told the Decatur Daily that students from the elementary and middle schools in Moulton, located in north Alabama, would start the academic year taking classes online. > > Education officials learned Monday that a person linked to both schools had tested positive for the disease caused by the coronavirus. State health officials recommended delaying the reopening by two weeks. Combined, the schools have more than 105 workers. > > School officials notified 10 people who were in contact with the person. Computers are being distributed for online classes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/911 "2020-08-12T20:01:36Z")
Georgia: > [@](#): > > Georgia’s largest school district struggled Wednesday to launch online learning for its 180,000 students, with parents complaining students couldn’t log in to Gwinnett County’s system. > > Meanwhile, Cherokee County has quarantined 1,156 students after trying in-school learning, adding about 330 students to yesterday’s total. They are home because of possible coronavirus exposure since classes resumed last week. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/912 "2020-08-12T21:02:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Georgia: [https://abc17news.com/news/health-news/2020/08/12/dr-sanjay-gupta-why-i-am-not-sending-my-kids-back-to-school/](https://abc17news.com/news/health-news/2020/08/12/dr-sanjay-gupta-why-i-am-not-sending-my-kids-back-to-school/) Dr. Gupta is a commentator at CNN. He’s in Georgia, so not sending his kids to classroom learning is a no-brainer. But he does a good job in this article of outlining a lot of the studies and reasons why he’s not sending his kids back to school. At the end, his decision came down to the high infection rate in his area, but that’s not news in Georgia. The rest of the article is about background for his considerations. New Jersey After planning a return to classrooms, New Jersey made a change. > **[New Jersey School District Nixes In Person Learning After 400 Teachers Opt Out](https://www.newson6.com/story/5f33f603224f180baa5a1158/new-jersey-school-district-nixes-in-person-learning-after-400-teachers-opt-out-)** > > As schools nationwide struggle to finalize reopening plans, some have abruptly changed course because of coronavirus outbreaks or pushback from the community. Kansas Kansas teachers could owe the schools thousands to get out of their contracts if they decided to quit or retire. > **[Kansas Teachers Could Owe Their Schools Thousands if They Quit over...](https://kansaspublicradio.org/misc-news/2020-08-11/kansas-teachers-could-owe-their-schools-thousands-if-they-quit-over-coronavirus-concerns)** > > Contracts for many teachers say they'll have to pay their school districts if they quit over coronavirus concerns. Universities and colleges are laying off workers due to decreased tuition and increased costs due to coronavirus. Even tenured people have not been spared. > **[Outrage as coronavirus prompts US universities and colleges to shed staff](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/12/us-universities-colleges-job-losses-coronavirus)** > > Mass layoffs and job cuts in further and higher education are being met with protests and lawsuits across the country ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/913 "2020-08-12T21:29:24Z")
And yet, in Washington: > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump is repeating his call to reopen the nation’s schools, and he again pressed Congress to steer future coronavirus funding away from schools that do not reopen this fall. > > Trump made the remarks Wednesday at a White House discussion with parents, teachers and doctors who said they support a full return to the classroom. > > Also joining Trump were Education Secretary Betsy DeVos and Vice President Mike Pence, who said the health risks tied to keeping children at home are greater than those associated with the coronavirus. No, Dipshit DeVos, they are not. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/914 "2020-08-13T02:48:28Z")
[https://www.cbs46.com/news/35-students-teachers-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-north-paulding-hs/article\_b13360f4-dcd9-11ea-b1fb-d3fd7502051e.html](https://www.cbs46.com/news/35-students-teachers-test-positive-for-covid-19-at-north-paulding-hs/article_b13360f4-dcd9-11ea-b1fb-d3fd7502051e.html) Yes, this is the high school made famous by the crowded hallway photo. The school was closed Monday and Tuesday for deep cleaning. On the 17th they will switch to a hybrid environment, with the student body broken into two groups that alternate days when they learn from home and days when they come to school. I wonder if the number of infected will continue to climb before then? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/915 "2020-08-13T03:00:54Z")
Maybe they’ll just follow the Texas model and stop testing. > **[Coronavirus testing in Texas plummets as schools prepare to reopen](https://www.texastribune.org/2020/08/10/coronavirus-testing-texas/)** > > Texas' low number of tests and large percentage of positive results suggest inadequacies in the state's public health surveillance effort at a time when school reopenings are certain to increase viral spread, health experts said. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/916 "2020-08-13T19:35:12Z")
> **[Cherokee closing Etowah High until Aug. 31 after rise in COVID-19 cases](https://www.ajc.com/education/cherokee-closing-etowah-high-until-aug-31-after-rise-in-covid-19-cases/AKVISQE7NBFA3A3KH46SX6FXFE/)** > > Etowah High School in Cherokee County will close until the end of the month as administrators try to contain the rapidly-growing COVID-19 case count at the school. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/917 "2020-08-13T23:12:50Z")
> **[Queen Creek teachers resign after vote to head back to in-person class](https://www.abc15.com/news/region-southeast-valley/queen-creek/more-teachers-resigning-in-queen-creek)** > > The decision to return to in-person learning passed by the Queen Creek Unified School Board Tuesday night in a 4-1 vote. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/918 "2020-08-14T01:49:10Z")
[Reopened Calif. private school ordered to shut](https://apnews.com/4d3742b49bfae5961597b93bc322bf4f): > [@](#): > > Fresno County issued a health order Thursday against Immanuel Schools in Reedley. The K-12 school was told to close its classrooms until the county is removed from a state monitoring list for two weeks. > > The school has about 600 students and it allowed students into classes Thursday without masks or social distancing. The school’s trustees and superintendent say they believe students’ development will suffer if they can’t be taught on campus. Fuck your belief. Dumbasses. We’re never going to get out of this hole. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/919 "2020-08-15T13:55:43Z")
> **[Texas is not tracking coronavirus data in the classroom as schools reopen](https://www.kbtx.com/2020/08/15/texas-is-not-tracking-coronavirus-data-in-the-classroom-as-schools-reopen/)** > > At this time, the Texas Education Agency has not determined if it will collect COVID-19 data from schools. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/920 "2020-08-15T14:46:37Z")
> **[Moore student who ‘knowingly had COVID-19’ attends school](https://kfor.com/news/moore-student-who-knowingly-had-covid-19-attends-school/)** > > A Moore Public Schools student came to school while knowingly having COVID-19. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/921 "2020-08-15T14:58:54Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Moore student who ‘knowingly had COVID-19’ attends school | KFOR.com Oklahoma City](https://kfor.com/news/moore-student-who-knowingly-had-covid-19-attends-school/) It seems like the assumption should be that someone will always have CV19 on campus. Whether they know they have it or not, it seems impossible to keep the virus out of the school. And with situations like this, it seems like it’s a deterrent to getting tested. If someone is going to go to campus regardless, they might as well not get tested so they don’t have the liability of not complying with a positive test. I almost think it would be better if the schoosl said they weren’t doing anything to mitigate the virus and they won’t close down because of it. If staff or students want to be safe, they should take appropriate precautions on their own. Obviously that’s not ideal, but schools and districts are so incompetent at keeping the campus safe that it’s probably better if everyone assumes nothing is being done rather than assuming the school is a safe environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=47)