# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/922 "2020-08-15T15:22:54Z")
The only reasonable precaution a person can take on an individual level would be to quit or, if a student, be truant. Public health requires a public response: as an individual, I can’t stock hand sanitizer for 150. I can’t mandate masks in my presence. I can’t send obviously symptomatic kids to the nurse. There’s simply no rugged individual path to being safe here. There are things schools can do that will mitigate. I don’t think we should be in school at all, but with our cutting plan it looks like we will be at about a third capacity. That’s objectively increasing our safety much more than an damage that comes from the perception of safety. Obviously, schools should take care to make sure that safer isn’t safe. But if we are going to proceed as if there’s an active case in every room, the only sane option is to shutdown. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/923 "2020-08-15T15:58:09Z")
The path that schools are on are just about guaranteed to lead to infections on a regular basis. They aren’t being safe enough to ensure that there won’t be infections during the school year. The inferior cloth masks that are commonly in use are not sufficient to prevent someone getting infected. Having hand sanitizer is not adequate against an airborne threat. Moving desks a little bit apart won’t make the environment safe enough. What is needed in the school environment to be safe is some kind of PPE strategy like is seen in hospitals with high filtration masks and face shields. Of course that’s not very feasible in a school, but that should be the point. That’s the level of PPE that’s required to have schools be safe. Sending kids to school with a bandanna on their face and a bottle of hand sanitizer is like going across the ocean in a sailboat and only bringing along some floaties as life preservers. It’s totally inadequate safety gear for the level of danger attempting to be addressed. > [@MandaJo](#): > > Obviously, schools should take care to make sure that safer isn’t safe. But if we are going to proceed as if there’s an active case in every room, the only sane option is to shutdown. This is probably what should be done. Stop the safety theater facade that makes people think they are sending their kids to a safe environment. Either create a truly safe environment or don’t send the kids there. Parents should be taking the approach that they are sending their kid with a peanut allergy to be in peanut processing facility all day several days a week. Keeping their kid safe in that kind of environment is what they should be thinking about when they send their kids back to school. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/924 "2020-08-15T16:36:01Z")
Here’s an approach that seems like the most realistic admission that you simply cannot please everybody: > **[Kenya’s Unusual Solution to the School Problem: Cancel the Year and Start...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/05/world/africa/Kenya-cancels-school-year-coronavirus.html)** > > Some students were taking classes online, while others couldn’t. So the government scrapped the school year for all. But the move may just make educational inequality worse. Of course, there will be ever-increasing inequality, given the privately educated kids who can find a way to carry on, but in Kenya that is already far more ocean than gulf. I would be fascinated to see what would happen in a US state that did the same thing, particularly if all the educators were furloughed for the same length of time. I don’t think it would be pretty. Not at all pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/925 "2020-08-15T16:40:56Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [Texas is not tracking coronavirus data in the classroom as schools reopen](https://www.kbtx.com/2020/08/15/texas-is-not-tracking-coronavirus-data-in-the-classroom-as-schools-reopen/) Oh, it’s waaaaaay worse than that. And it’s not _just_ Texas. > **[Texas testing drops as schools reopen, prepare for football](https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-san-antonio-college-football-football-health-2b1b1b6b4e8246d31b85e1e7a76c1920)** > > AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Anyone can get a coronavirus test at the CentroMed clinic in San Antonio, but on a recent day, the drive-thru was empty. > [@](#): > > The number of coronavirus tests being done each day in Texas has dropped by the thousands in August, [mirroring nationwide trends](https://apnews.com/aebdc0978de958f20ab3f398cdf6f769) that has seen daily testing averages in the U.S. fall nearly 9% since the end of July, according to The COVID Tracking Project. The problem is dwindling demand: Testing centers like CentroMed are no longer inundated by long lines that stretch for blocks, or closing hours early because tests run out. > > The dropoff comes as the U.S. has surpassed 5 million confirmed coronavirus cases and is closing in on 170,000 deaths. It threatens to put the U.S. even further behind other countries that have better managed the pandemic, in part, through more aggressive testing. > [@](#): > > The rolling average of people who test positive for the virus in Texas is stubbornly elevated at 16% — a figure that itself could be a sign of insufficient testing. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has said a positivity rate under 10% is an indicator that a state has robust testing. > [@](#): > > It’s not clear why testing has fallen off, even as many areas of the country are still experiencing serious outbreaks. Health experts suspect some Americans, jaded by images of long testing lines and the possibility of results taking a week or longer, are deciding not to bother unless they’re ill. Others have suggested that mixed messages about the disease — like President Donald Trump’s recent [false claim that 99% of COVID-19 cases are harmless](https://apnews.com/897fbd91ee077ce1901cdac63e0a9141) — could deter people from seeking tests. > > “The good answer would be because we have less COVID, fewer people have symptoms. A bad answer might be that people gave up because it’s taking a long time,” said Dr. Junda Woo, medical director for San Antonio Metro Health. “We have the data, but we don’t have a lot of the answers behind the data.” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/926 "2020-08-15T16:42:32Z")
I think we might want to redo this year, or allow kids to redo the year without penalty if they want . . And encourage it. All the concerns we have about kids falling behind are based on the concept that they need to be “caught up” by 18. But maybe 19 is normal for this generation. It wouldn’t be a tragedy, and i don’t think private school kids who finish at 18 would have some huge advantage. But we need to do our best to keep the ball rolling this year. We can’t let them just go feral. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/927 "2020-08-15T17:43:18Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > All the concerns we have about kids falling behind are based on the concept that they need to be “caught up” by 18. But maybe 19 is normal for this generation. It wouldn’t be a tragedy, and i don’t think private school kids who finish at 18 would have some huge advantage. I was a smart kid but I think even I might have benefited from being a little older when I started college. If the new norm is kids start college at 19, what are the drawbacks? The only large one I can think of is some parents booting their newly 18-year-old kids out of the house _before_ senior year: probably every school already had a handful of kids this happened to mid-senior year after their birthdays and this would definitely increase it in families with that mentality. We’d need to consider support/group housing for the kids in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/928 "2020-08-15T18:22:43Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > All the concerns we have about kids falling behind are based on the concept that they need to be “caught up” by 18. But maybe 19 is normal for this generation. It wouldn’t be a tragedy, and i don’t think private school kids who finish at 18 would have some huge advantage. Thing is, what if this situation goes on for years? What if it’s not 19, but 23 or 24? How long could this go on? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/929 "2020-08-15T18:48:16Z")
Do you have an alternative? I can’t think of one beyond “do the best we can this year, and offer remediation next”. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/930 "2020-08-15T18:59:45Z")
That headline is a little bit sensational and misleading. The kid and parents thought he was over the virus and made a mistake about the length of the quarantine. It’s not as if the kid was just flaunting the guidelines. Stories like this, however, do point out that even the best laid plans can go astray. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/931 "2020-08-15T19:29:46Z")
But doesn’t it seem like kids with symptoms will be going to school on a regular basis? I can’t imagine that all working parents will take time off to take their symptomatic kids to get tested and then quarantine them while the results come back to see if their sniffles are just sniffles or coronavirus. Lots of working parents will send their kids to school and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/932 "2020-08-15T19:32:53Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > That headline is a little bit sensational and misleading. The kid and parents thought he was over the virus and made a mistake about the length of the quarantine. It’s not as if the kid was just flaunting the guidelines. > Stories like this, however, do point out that even the best laid plans can go astray. We are 8 months into this pandemic. It has been six months since the initial lockdowns. Exactly how long are we going to accept “I didn’t know” as a valid excuse for endangering others and spreading, not stopping, this virus? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/933 "2020-08-15T19:32:54Z")
Some will, sure. And if the symptoms are obvious, they will be sent home. I’m honestly a lot less worried about that than about asymptomatic carriers. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/934 "2020-08-15T19:45:02Z")
Is it 14 days or 10? Is it from positive diagnosis or from test date? Is it from onset of symptoms or resolution? What if there are no symptoms but a possible contact? Is it from possible contact date or when you were notified? Does the quarantine end date mean you can return on that day or the next? If you don’t see how there could be confusion, then I don’t know how to respond to you. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/935 "2020-08-15T19:54:10Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Lots of working parents will send their kids to school and hope for the best. No doubt. Which is why we as a society need to step up. It’s not good enough just to have a plan to try and keep the schools safe. There needs to be contingencies in place to handle the sick or exposed kids as well. Is it an enhanced sick leave policy so the parents **can** take time off with their kids? Is it some sort of covid positive daycare? I don’t know the answers, but I don’t think we even know all the questions yet. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/936 "2020-08-15T19:56:50Z")
[golf clap] A Gish Gallop of questions; well done. I’m tired of the excuses, **mike**. People should pay attention; this is life-or-death. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/937 "2020-08-15T20:00:57Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > It’s not as if the kid was just flaunting the guidelines. I think the word you’re looking for is _flout_, to openly disregard, not _flaunt_, to display ostentatiously. Since the word used changes the meaning, I’m hoping this isn’t considered a nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/938 "2020-08-15T20:03:41Z")
it might be a nitpick but you’re correct. I thought I did use flout. I may have made the mistake, but I’m gonna blame auto-correct. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/939 "2020-08-15T20:19:06Z")
I’m also really worried about ambigious symptoms. I feel pretty confident most parents will keep kids with a fever home. But what about a cough in a kid who normally has hayfever? Or a scratchy throat, in a kid who often gets one when it’s dry out? Diarrhea once or twice? Headaches? I’m not sure it’s reasonable or possible to stay home 14 days for every thing on the symptom list. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/940 "2020-08-15T20:25:21Z")
How’s the view from up there on your high horse? I agree. People should pay attention, but there is no real consensus. the [CDC](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html#Testing,-Diagnosis,-and-Notification) doesn’t agree with you (I saw your original answer before edit) they say: > Based on current evidence, scientists believe that persons with mild to moderate COVID-19 may shed replication-competent SARS-CoV-2 for up to 10 days **following symptom onset** my bolding. and this is what [Harvard Med](https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus) says : > Most people with coronavirus who have symptoms will no longer be contagious by **10 days after symptoms resolve.** my bolding again. But the important part is what was that school’s guidelines? Do they specify 10 or 14 days? is that school days or calendar days. Do the specify when the quarantine is thought to begin, or end? Do they differentiate asymptomatic cases or contact cases from symptomatic ones? I agree. This shouldn’t be that hard. But in the absence of federal guidelines it’s really hard to know what is right. The schools are left to fend for themselves, and I’m not convinced they’re up to the task. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/941 "2020-08-15T20:27:14Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > ’m also really worried about ambigious symptoms. I feel pretty confident most parents will keep kids with a fever home. But what about a cough in a kid who normally has hayfever? Or a scratchy throat, in a kid who often gets one when it’s dry out? Diarrhea once or twice? Headaches? > I’m not sure it’s reasonable or possible to stay home 14 days for every thing on the symptom list. It seems like teachers would be facing the same kinds of questions. If a teacher or staff person wakes up and has the sniffles, what are they supposed to do? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=48)