# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/982 "2020-08-19T00:31:25Z")
Wyoming. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/983 "2020-08-19T00:32:48Z")
That’s awful. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/984 "2020-08-19T00:39:31Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > So a friend who teaches in my old district says class sizes will still be 25+ at the HS, even though that won’t allow for social distancing. I have 35 at a time lined up in a portable classroom that’s 600 square feet. If we have one to two feet of space between students we’ll be doing well. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/985 "2020-08-19T00:47:29Z")
Yikes, Biffster. Wishing you the best of luck. The Wyoming district where I taught is, as I mentioned before, supplying neck gaiters for all students. If the Duke study is correct and gaiters are worse than no mask at all, the district may become the world’s largest petrie dish. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/986 "2020-08-19T01:00:35Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > If the Duke study is correct and gaiters are worse than no mask at all, t IIRC, the Duke study posited that gaiters made of _fleece_ were worse than none at all because of some arcane characteristic of fleece that aerosolized the virus even more making it yet more contagious because it stayed suspended in the airspace longer. Gaiters of regular cloth work to a degree, the better the cloth (and the number of layers) the better they work. Even a bandana is better than nothing. The Duke article didn’t make any of this clear until you read it all the way to the bottom twice. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/987 "2020-08-19T01:04:10Z")
For high school kids, if they are more likely to wear gaiters than a mask, gaiters they will wear instead of a mask that they won’t are a good idea. 🤞🏻🤞🏼For every student, staff, teacher, parent, family everywhere, every day. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/988 "2020-08-19T01:48:11Z")
Not true that gaiters are worse than no mask at all. > Save the gaiters! Scientists say fear over their virus protection is unwarranted. > **[Save the Gaiters! (Published 2020)](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/save-the-gaiters-scientists-say-fear-over-their-virus-protection-is-unwarranted/)** > > A small study prompted fears that neck gaiters could spread more virus droplets than they stop. But new research shows that those face coverings can protect just as well as other cloth masks. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/989 "2020-08-19T02:20:46Z")
Even so, gaiters are just about at the bottom of filtration ability. The only place they would be appropriate would be places where the risk is very low, like on an outdoor walking path. They are totally inadequate for being indoor for long periods of time where the person is more likely to encounter more droplets more often. And then there is the whole way that gaiters are used. They are constantly moved on and off the person’s face. Each time is an opportunity to contaminate the mask with whatever is on the person’s hand. And because of the soft shape, the outside of the fabric is often rubbed against the person’s nose and mouth when the gaiter is put back on. If you imagine the person having ink on their fingers, it wouldn’t take too long for the ink to be transferred to the gaiter and then end up on the person’s mouth or nose. Regular masks have insides and outsides that generally don’t roll around. The outside of a surgical mask doesn’t typically directly contact the person’s face, so contamination on the outside will stay there. A gaiter, and probably a bandanna as well, is ill-shaped and is likely to have the potentially contaminated outside contact the person’s face. With all that, there really is no reason to wear a gaiter. It provides little protection and makes it more likely that contamination gets directly rubbed into the person’s mouth and nose. It has the advantage of being convenient and comfortable, but that’s not what kids and staff in schools need to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/990 "2020-08-19T03:13:55Z")
Gaiters are also called fleeces in some places, but they’re not made of fleece. AND I forgot to mention this: there are only 4 subs on the sub list…for the entire district…7 schools. There are usually 40 or so. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/991 "2020-08-19T03:34:23Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Even so, gaiters are just about at the bottom of filtration ability. It very much depends on what material they’re made of. For men with beards, it seems a much better choice than a regular mask that ends before the bottom of the beard. And I see people wearing regular masks wrong _all the time_. The part on either side of their nose is often standing off their face, especially if they have prominent noses and no metal strip in the mask. Homemade cloth masks may or may not have enough filtration; they too depend on what they’re made of. At least gaiters conceivably close or tuck in at the bottom, unlike bandanas, which seem relatively useless, as you say. That said, I haven’t seen a gaiter in action, so I have no idea how much they shift around or how much people fiddle with them. Some of the gaiters I’ve seen in photos look like they’re snug around the nose; others, not as much. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/992 "2020-08-19T03:46:13Z")
From the [article](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/save-the-gaiters-scientists-say-fear-over-their-virus-protection-is-unwarranted/): > [@](#): > > Tests show wide variation in how much protection cloth masks provide. Some homemade masks perform far better than the gaiters tested in the Virginia Tech study, and some perform worse. Overall, tests of fabric masks have shown that two layers are better than one, and that a snug fitting mask with no gaps is best. Most experts agree that the average mask wearer doesn’t need medical-grade protection, and that any face covering, combined with social distancing, probably offers adequate protection for the average person against spreading or contracting the coronavirus. > > “I’ve been recommending neck gaiters, and my kids wear neck gaiters,” Dr. Marr said. “There’s nothing inherent about a neck gaiter that should make it any worse than a cloth mask. It comes down to the fabric and how well it fits.” ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/993 "2020-08-19T05:18:09Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Not true that gaiters are worse than no mask at all. Thanks for this. It was helpful. In other news: A lot of students and teachers are in quarantine in Mississippi. > **[More than 2,000 students, 500 teachers in Mississippi in quarantine due to...](https://www.wjtv.com/health/coronavirus/more-than-2000-students-500-teachers-in-mississippi-in-quarantine-due-to-covid-19/)** > > JACKSON, Miss. (WJTV) – State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs said schools in 71 Mississippi counties have reported COVID-19 cases in schools. Dobbs said 245 teachers and 199 students have te… > [@](#): > > State Health Officer Dr. Thomas Dobbs said schools in 71 Mississippi counties have reported COVID-19 cases in schools. > > Dobbs said 245 teachers and 199 students have tested positive for the virus. > > He also said 589 teachers and 2,035 students have been quarantined. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/994 "2020-08-20T20:32:32Z")
Another new study on the transmission rates of children. Another study showing that viral loads may be higher in children. These are multiple articles on the same study. Each of them emphasized something different about the study. This puts into question whether temperature checks would be adequate screening techniques since only 50% of children who were infected had a fever. Screening for symptoms will also miss a lot of infection since the viral load was higher in the first few days of infection when children were asymptomatic. The last article gives some of the critiques of the conclusions of the study. It’s the same critique the AAP has been having since the beginning. As an academic argument, it could be interesting. But as policy making insight, the critique is saying that just because it’s possible to be transmissible with high viral loads and that’s how adults transmit it, it’s not proven until there’s a statistically significant proportion of the population that is shown to get it this way. Unless they can prove that through another study, proving that by exposing more children to settings where they could infect more people could cause a lot of deaths. > **[Evidence grows that children may play a larger role in transmission than...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/08/20/children-coronavirus-spread-transmission/)** > > The latest study is small, but it shows that kids' rates of infection and viral loads may make them silent spreaders. > [@](#): > > “Some people thought that children might be protected,” Fasano said. “This is incorrect. They may be as susceptible as adults — but just not visible.” > > The study in [the Journal of Pediatrics](https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(20)31023-4/fulltext) comes on the heels of two others that offer insights about children and [coronavirus](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02/28/what-you-need-know-about-coronavirus/?itid=lk_inline_manual_8) transmission. On July 30, researchers reported in [JAMA](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2768952) that children younger than 5 with mild or moderate illness have much higher levels of virus in the nose, compared with older children and adults. Shortly before that, investigators in [South Korea](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315-t1) published a household study that some believed implied older children could spread the virus as readily as adults, while younger children less so. But researchers later clarified that it was unclear whether the transmission came from the older children or from contacts that they shared with other family members. > > The newest study reported that the viral loads of the children were significantly higher than those of severely ill adults in the hospital. However, the children and adults were not in the same stage of illness — the children’s levels were measured on days zero to two of infection, compared to days seven or longer for the adults. > **[Researchers show children are silent spreaders of virus that causes COVID-19](https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/772874)** > > Researchers provide critical data showing that children play a larger role in the community spread of COVID-19 than previously thought. > [@](#): > > In another breakthrough finding from the study, the researchers challenge the current hypothesis that because children have lower numbers of immune receptors for SARS-CoV2, this makes them less likely to become infected or seriously ill. Data from the group show that although younger children have lower numbers of the virus receptor than older children and adults, this does not correlate with a decreased viral load. According to the authors, this finding suggests that children can carry a high viral load, meaning they are more contagious, regardless of their susceptibility to developing COVID-19 infection. [https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/silent-spreaders-of-covid-19-kids-who-seem-healthy-may-be-more-contagious-than-sick-adults-study-says/ar-BB18aPke](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/silent-spreaders-of-covid-19-kids-who-seem-healthy-may-be-more-contagious-than-sick-adults-study-says/ar-BB18aPke) > [@](#): > > Scientists also discovered that only half of the children who tested positive for the disease had a fever, leading experts to question the heavy reliance of non-contact thermal scanners at building entrances. > > “How likely are you to pick up every case of COVID? The answer is only 50% of the time,” DeBiasi said. “You still have to put in all those other measures to try to prevent spread (because) children will be missed from screening methods.” > **[Infected children can carry high levels of coronavirus, Mass. General study...](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08/20/nation/infected-children-can-carry-high-levels-coronavirus-mass-general-study-says/)** > > Coming as parents and school officials wrestle with whether it’s safe to reopen schools, the study adds fuel to worries that children may spread the virus — but it does not show that they do. > [@](#): > > Dr. Cody Meissner, chief of pediatric infectious diseases at Tufts Medical Center, called the study “slanted” and devoid of new insights. > > “No one disputes the fact that children get it,” Meissner said. “You can’t really jump to the supposition that this increases the likelihood that children transmit the virus. We have very solid evidence that that’s not the case. . . . The evidence that children are important vectors is simply not there.” > > In contrast, Dr. Mark R. Schleiss, a pediatric infectious diseases specialist at University of Minnesota Medical School, called the study “very useful” and “nicely done,” confirming other recent research about “the importance of children in the dissemination and spread of COVID-19.” > > Schleiss said it is “biologically plausible” that children with high viral loads would transmit the illness. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/995 "2020-08-21T15:42:23Z")
Here is small town Tennessee… Schools open. Remote learning optional. Mask wearing “encouraged”. My wife is a teacher. Three teachers in one classroom. One of them thinks things are overblown, masks are stupid, etc. (you know the type) She has tested positive. My wife who wasn’t around her much has now tested positive. So, I was tested today. We have done the mask thing, no dining in restaurants, home deliveries, ordering food online and having them delivering to the car, etc. No symptoms - yet. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/996 "2020-08-21T18:35:37Z")
Sorry about the positive tests. When did your wife test positive? I hope you get good news. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/997 "2020-08-21T18:46:51Z")
So the Trump administration has officially declared teachers to be essential workers. AFAICT, that means districts don’t have to have teachers quarantine if they’re exposed to the virus, as long as they don’t show any symptoms. Surely districts would have teachers tested, though, right? Then again, the test results are taking quite awhile, so maybe it’s more likely the symptoms would show up first? I was thinking that if students and teachers are masked and social distancing is enforced, the main worry would be teachers’ household members, but Author\_Bulk’s post makes it clear some districts aren’t requiring either measure. Of course, districts are free to ignore the official declaration should they choose, but I’m thinking many districts will find it simpler and cheaper to use the declaration to shape their policies. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/998 "2020-08-21T19:45:57Z")
> [@Author\_Balk](#): > > She has tested positive. My wife who wasn’t around her much has now tested positive. So, I was tested today. > We have done the mask thing, no dining in restaurants, home deliveries, ordering food online and having them delivering to the car, etc. I’m so sorry to hear that and I hope that the two of you get through this with flying colors. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/999 "2020-08-21T20:00:44Z")
> **['I just can't do this': UI student who tested positive for COVID-19 recounts...](https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/education/university-of-iowa/2020/08/21/university-iowa-student-tests-positive-coronavirus/5621379002/)** > > Annie Gaughan's account went viral on social media this week. It began as a long thread posted to Instagram but migrated across platforms. Some of the highlights: - The RA told her to not call her parents and to wait until the school told her what to do - While sick, she had to pack up and carry her stuff alone to a decrepit dorm reserved for quarantine students - The food they provided her was cold rice, meat, and 3 bottles of water - Deciding to go home instead of stay in the quarantine dorm, she took a 4+ hour bus ride even though she was positive - The university said they were prepared for CV19, but they didn’t expect to have anyone sick the first day so they hadn’t actually done the preparations. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1000 "2020-08-22T01:36:54Z")
Good news, and bad news. The good news, the test I had on Tuesday came Negative. The bad news, a coworker in another school I work part time for came with a positive result on Thursday. Meaning that she could had infected others in the car that also me and others had carpooled on Wednesday. (We all used masks even there, no recycled air in the setup of the air conditioning of the car as a precaution, no mixing of the groups in a specific carpool as recommended, etc) I will have to test again, hope to get lucky again with the schools’ Russian roulette. (Have to because management and government in Arizona see us as essential workers and as part timer, I have no benefits here) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1001 "2020-08-22T15:34:44Z")
With a daughter entering college this year, [this is how we handled the school question](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/our-covid-college-conundrum-and-how-we-solved-it/918750). If you have questions, please ask them in the linked thread, thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=51)