# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1042 "2020-08-26T21:43:48Z")
Attending school. It is understandable some parents won’t feel comfortable depending on local conditions. I don’t think mask use in children is incredibly effective. But it is cheap and may provide a little protection and some comfort. Though there are concerns masks impede learning, it is an easy step to take. If it were me making the decisions, I would test all the kids before school, require masks for at least two weeks, and retest at two weeks. Fortunately, more informed people are making these decisions. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1043 "2020-08-26T22:11:40Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I don’t think mask use in children is incredibly effective. But it is cheap and may provide a little protection and some comfort. Though there are concerns masks impede learning, it is an easy step to take. If it were me making the decisions, I would test all the kids before school, require masks for at least two weeks, and retest at two weeks. Fortunately, more informed people are making these decisions. A few anecdotes, of who-knows-what value. Yesterday I drove by what looked like probably a pre-school, but possibly kindergarten, and saw a bunch of little kids running around playing outside wearing masks. So at least for those few seconds 15 kids had masks on. My 7 year old, who usually is a good sport about wearing a mask when necessary, decided she was going to all of the sudden refuse to wear one. I think doing a frequent nasal swab test on little kids will be very difficult. The same 7 year old recently had a medical incident. She was not at all thrilled about getting an IV put in, but handled it fine. She absolutely screamed as loud as she could for the nasal swab test. Later the IV line had to be replaced, and she wasn’t happy about it, but was willing to tolerate it as long as they weren’t doing another nasal swab. Having had my own nasal swab and IV in the last week, I agree with my kid. Hopefully the spit tests will be widely available and validated soon. My university is making all students who live on campus take a nasal swab and spit test. I’m sure other places are doing similar. That should give some good information as to the accuracy of the spit test compared to the swab. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1044 "2020-08-26T22:16:47Z")
You can do swabs on 7 year olds but you can’t make them enjoyable. This is what Ontario has decided to do. > **[Ford government unveils new COVID-19 guidelines for Ontario schools](https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ford-government-unveils-new-covid-19-guidelines-for-ontario-schools/wcm/c504275c-6b65-45ec-8710-6525f9a00ed2/)** > > Parents will be expected to screen their school-age children every day for symptoms of COVID-19 and pick them up from school right away if they become ill in… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1045 "2020-08-26T22:26:35Z")
Two ways to answer. First, isolating, the 14 days from the close exposure, definitely. That accomplishes the lion’s share of the control good. Not all of it but most. Second is what [the guidance](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html) actually says. > [@](#): > > - **If you have been in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with****a COVID-19 infection ****for at least 15 minutes but do not have symptoms:** > - You do not necessarily need a test unless you are a vulnerable individual or your health care provider or State or local public health officials recommend you take one. > - A negative test does not mean you will not develop an infection from the close contact or contract an infection at a later time. > > - You should monitor yourself for symptoms. If you develop symptoms, you should evaluate yourself under the considerations set forth above. > - You should strictly adhere to CDC mitigation protocols, especially if you are interacting with a [vulnerable individual](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/index.html). You should adhere to CDC guidelines to protect vulnerable individuals with whom you [live](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/care-for-someone.html). That “unless” advised you by your doctor or public health officials is a big out. The bigger bit to me though is the emphasis that a negative test after a close exposure shouldn’t be an all clear to expose others. You may have tested too soon. Unintended consequence? In my experience overwhelming most of these close contact tests are negative. Cut them out and keep those who are being tested for symptoms will make positivity rate go up. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1046 "2020-08-27T00:08:12Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > … My 7 year old, who usually is a good sport about wearing a mask when necessary, decided she was going to all of the sudden refuse to wear one. … I don’t understand how this is different from any other rule young kids are expected to follow in school. Kid decided he/she doesn’t wanna wear a mask? FIne. Wait over there in the corner while we call mommy and daddy to pick you up. After the 2d-3d time, well, I guess you just opted for 100% virtual learning. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1047 "2020-08-27T00:29:49Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I don’t understand how this is different from any other rule young kids are expected to follow in school. Kid decided he/she doesn’t wanna wear a mask? FIne. Wait over there in the corner while we call mommy and daddy to pick you up. After the 2d-3d time, well, I guess you just opted for 100% virtual learning. With public schools, they may not be able to do that. They can say the kid can’t be in the class with other people, but then they have to find someplace for her. They can send her home if she is sick. If not wearing a mask can get her suspended or expelled, then they can kick her out, but short of that, they have to deal with it. Some schools handle problems like that incredibly badly (look up Propublica’s series about isolation rooms in Chicago schools), but it comes down to public schools can only refuse to teach a child under extremely limited conditions. I think this is one of the hardest parts of opening schools. Masking appears to be extremely important in limiting the spread of the virus, but we can’t even get adults to wear masks and keep them on appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1048 "2020-08-27T12:57:46Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > With public schools, they may not be able to do that. … I have no basis to disagree with your characterization, but I must say I consider that unfortunate. I read the local Chicago press about isolation areas, and while I decry their abuse, I also sympathize with what schools face in having to “educate” certain challenging students. I have not researched the law, but my personal opinion is that the designation of a health crisis would allow different “process.” So many stupid - and poorly behaved - people of all ages. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1049 "2020-08-27T17:46:52Z")
> **[All Kindergarten Students Quarantined, School Tells Parents in Late-Night Text](https://www.mississippifreepress.org/5455/all-kindergarten-students-quarantined-school-tells-parents-in-late-night-text)** > > An Alcorn County, Miss., elementary school is ordering all kindergarten students in each of its classes to quarantine at home for two weeks starting tomorrow, parents learned via text message late this evening. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1050 "2020-08-28T20:44:12Z")
> **[Preschoolers are mask-licking germ bombs — yet few catch the coronavirus,...](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-28/few-preschoolers-catch-coronavirus-data)** > > It's hard to predict what may happen when California's primary schools reopen. But when it comes to the state's youngest students, data are more robust and reassuring. > [@](#): > > “This is the most bizarre virus,” said Dr. Naomi Bardach, a professor of pediatrics at UC San Francisco. “Normally we think about kids getting coughs and colds all the time and giving it to each other all the time, and [giving] it to their teachers. In this disease, it’s a totally different model.” ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1051 "2020-08-30T00:27:50Z")
We just finished our second week of virtual school here in Bartlett municipal district. It’s been hell for everyone involved in the high school. They seem to have the platforms and the scheduling a little more organized in the elementary where most grades only have one teacher but for us in tenth with seven different teachers winging it with 2 hybrid schedules and 1 virtual schedule the only thing that could be worse is a storm taking out half the district’s internet…which happened Thursday evening, the night before many projects were due in Friday was the one Zoom meeting day for all virtual classes and half the kids missed out but honestly their use of zoom is a five minute check-in. No instruction. One class I’ve found has set up some slideshows and videos for instruction. One out of seven. It’s not working well for anyone whether we’re virtual or hybrid. It would have made so much more sense just to wait a bit longer. Maybe. I don’t know. I do know this. In my son’s former school last week a student tested positive but the school was instructed not to inform anyone in the school, not even classmates, not even the ones sitting closest to the student. Parents found out because the sick kid told their friends. They say they are not telling parents because it would cause unnecessary chaos. That if a child shows symptoms they should just stay home and if a parent feels it’s necessary they should get their child tested. They are pushing the whole “if you’re not symptomatic you don’t need tested” crap. And when a parent talked about the case (no names mentioned, not even which school in our district) in our district’s parent information FB group way too many parents got angry and said we shouldn’t be giving out ‘private information’ like that. That letting people know there’s a positive case in the district is “leftist shit stirring”. They don’t want to know if there are cases. As for the kids they are so upset and frustrated because they are still expected to make the grades. They are still expected to turn everything in on time and be there for Zoom meetings. We had no power Friday so my son got an absent mark even though he was there and ready to learn, he just couldn’t access the zoom meeting. He COULD do his work but it couldn’t be submitted until later and that meant even though it’s not his fault points were deducted. This just upset him enough that he just broke down and cried. We have been told repeatedly to be patient with the district, the schools, the teachers, the platforms… but nobody is being patient for the students and understanding how horribly frustrating this is for them. They are suffering here whether they’re hybrid or virtual. Their education is definitely going to suffer. Tenth grade is when we really start working hard on getting those good grades and extracurriculars planned out to prepare for college. My son is in Honors Choir and Art. He is a promising singer. His chorus teacher hasn’t even given them any sort of work. What can be done if they can’t sing together? And the art teacher has given us a crazy large shopping list but so far in two weeks just one assignment. One zoom check-in. Oh and that’s another thing. When this started we were told they’d have two zoom meetings per week for each class and each would be at least half the class and would focus on lecturing and instruction. The first week they dropped that to 1 time a week and so far I haven’t seen a single class meeting go over five minutes. And this morning in the news I found out that another municipal school in Shelby County had a cluster of five students and a teacher this week. Three of the students are football players. They have the kids playing contact sports already. And surprise surprise now they have a cluster of covid. We just lost a child in our county last week but people are still acting like this is no big deal. Sorry I know I’ve written a book here. We’re just so frustrated. And tomorrow starts the Shelby County Schools. They’re 100% virtual and honestly I think it makes a lot more sense, that way all the teachers and students are on the same page when it comes to scheduling. Schools shouldn’t stay open during a pandemic just to provide daycare but from what I’ve read daycare is being provided for younger students and students with special needs. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1052 "2020-08-30T14:18:24Z")
DSeid, thanks for pointing me to this thread. I had completely missed it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1053 "2020-08-30T18:00:46Z")
> **[University of Alabama orders faculty to keep quiet about outbreak](https://www.ajc.com/news/university-of-alabama-orders-faculty-to-keep-quiet-about-outbreak/7ZAHSQPNDRBINBEF3A6YAVMPRE/)** > > Administration officials at the University of Alabama have ordered the school’s professors to keep quiet about the coronavirus amid an outbreak that infected more than 500 students during the first week of classes. Faculty in multiple departments... This is the kind of shit that I feared would happen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1054 "2020-08-30T18:35:20Z")
From the linked article: > The unexpected mandate was unsettling for some staff. > > “A lot of my colleagues and people I’ve talked to, they’re terrified,” said Michael Innis-Jimenez, an American studies professor who decided to teach remotely after losing confidence in the university’s reopening plan. > > “Every statement at least for the last month has been about this plan, they’ve got this plan,” he said, according to the Beast. “It makes it feel like a lot of this is for show, especially when they don’t want you to confirm it’s not working.” > “Although our initial reentry test was encouraging, the rise in COVID cases that we’ve seen in recent days is unacceptable and if unchecked threatens our ability to complete the semester on campus,” University of Alabama President Stuart Bell said at Monday’s news briefing. > > The University of Alabama tested 29,938 students returning to campus and found 310 positive cases among them, according to the website’s data. > > Testing a week later, however, revealed more alarming results. > > “During that time, we encountered many students who have been exposed since returning to campus, particularly in the Greek system,” said Dr. Ricky Friend, dean of college of community health sciences, according to The Associated Press. > > For now, UAB students accounted for little more than 1% of the total positive cases found, according to the data. > > Colleges and universities elsewhere are also dealing with similar scenarios. > > At Auburn University, 207 new positive cases of COVID-19 were reported between Aug. 15 and Aug. 21, including 202 students and five employees, according to the school’s Campus-Specific COVID-19 Data. > > Although lower than the University of Alabama’s totals, Auburn’s numbers were still a dramatic increase from the 41 positive cases reported the week before. The university has had 545 total positive cases since March. > > For the most part, students disregarded state mask mandates and packed the bars in downtown Auburn over the weekend, [AL.com](http://al.com/) reported. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1055 "2020-08-30T21:05:24Z")
Talking w/ my kid, granddaughter’s teacher/school are doing about as good of a job as I can imagine, but K is still a sorry joke of what it ought to be. I truly feel for the parents who are trying to make this work for their kids. Perhaps the biggest challenge may be for those teachers who have to simultaneously teach both in-class AND virtual. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1056 "2020-08-30T21:06:59Z")
Just for a good news contrast - earlier this week we delivered our daughter to University of Vermont for her second year. Policies there included a self-enforced quarantine before arrival with a spit test sent in 5 days before arrival and testing on arrival as well. [Results.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mynbc5.com/amp/article/early-covid-19-testing-among-vermont-college-students-yields-low-number-of-positive-results/33833813) > [@](#): > > **MONTPELIER, Vt. —** > > Coronavirus tests administered to out-of-state college students studying in Vermont has returned a low number of positive results thus far, according to state leaders. > > Tests of nearly 8,700 students have yielded a positivity rate of 0.22%, according to Mike Pieciak, commissioner of the Department of Financial Regulation and Gov. Scott’s point person on COVID-19 modeling. That’s less than [half of the positivity rate](https://www.healthvermont.gov/response/coronavirus-covid-19/current-activity-vermont) for Vermont’s general population which is the lowest in the nation. … > > … “We’re not seeing the kind of spikes that we were worried about,” Pieciak said during a press briefing. “We’re seeing really steady numbers in openings from higher ed.” Results on universal testing after arrival are so far zero student cases. That’s pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1057 "2020-08-30T21:16:43Z")
I have several friends in college, and other friends with kids in college. The procedures vary enormously from school to school. I guess we will get a large-scale test of how various protocols work in a school environment. Congrats on your daughter’s school’s good luck so far. That is promising. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1058 "2020-08-30T21:49:30Z")
I haven’t bothered with calculating what UA’s rates turn out to be, compared to community rates in Alabama, but right off, a college town starting off with bars open?? Yes some very different approaches at different schools. Not just luck. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1059 "2020-08-30T22:52:45Z")
I heard an interview from someone at Cassar, and they made the point that a small college in the middle of nowhere is uniquely sui t ed to setting norms and expectations: conscious culture shaping is old hat for schools like that. But it seems like lots of big schools didn’t even try. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1060 "2020-08-31T00:19:35Z")
Well, it’s been 2 weeks since school started here, and it’s been horrendous. My 5th grade son participates OK during the live sessions, but his independent work has been complete misery. He either refuses to do the work at all or he does a slapdash job. And even then it takes him 6 hours per assignment, far longer than it should. It’s creating a lot of stress in our family. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1061 "2020-08-31T00:57:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Results on universal testing after arrival are so far zero student cases. That’s pretty low. Assuming everyone’s being honest in their disclosure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=54)