# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1082 "2020-09-02T21:08:34Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Well, do we think it’s worth looking at what has happened in other countries? Or would that be apples to oranges? [some of these articles are a week or so old. I didn’t post them at the time] In Germany, > **[41 schools report coronavirus in Berlin | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/virus-schools-berlin-1.5694994)** > > At least 41 schools in Berlin have reported students or teachers are infected with the coronavirus — not even two weeks after they reopened in the German capital. > **[Schools Can Reopen, Germany Finds, but Expect a ‘Roller Coaster’ (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/world/europe/germany-schools-virus-reopening.html)** > > With nations determined to return to in-person learning, many will have trouble matching Germany’s formula: fast and free testing, robust contact tracing and low community spread. In Sweden, > **[Preschool with covid-19 infection is closed in Kalmar](https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-08-17-preschool-with-covid-19-infection-is-closed-in-kalmar.HJRa9jWuGD.html)** > > Kalmar municipality has in consultation with Region Kalmar's infection control doctor decided to close a preschool with covid-19 infection > **[Six teachers infected with covid-19 at a school in Lund](https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2020-08-25-six-teachers-infected-with-covid-19-at-a-school-in-lund.S1V2iYCGQv.html)** > > Six teachers at a school in Lund have been infected with covid-19 since school started. On Tuesday afternoon, the school went out with information via e-mail to all guardians.  In the US, (Florida) [Nearly 9,000 Florida Children Diagnosed With Coronavirus in Two Weeks as Schools Reopen](https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-9000-florida-children-diagnosed-coronavirus-two-weeks-schools-reopen-1527587) Some universities, > **[UNC-Chapel Hill Reports 31.3 Percent of Students Tested Have COVID—And There...](https://indyweek.com/news/orange/unc-carolina-inn-covid-19/)** > > There are two off-campus clusters the university hasn't reported yet. > **[University of Miami Reports Nearly 100 Positive COVID Tests in One-Week Period](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/university-of-miami-reports-over-140-positive-covid-tests-in-one-week-period/2283109/)** > > Nearly 100 people on the campus of the University of Miami tested positive for the coronavirus in a one-week period, the school announced Monday. A dashboard from the school revealed 96 positive cases were reported between August 17 and August 23.... > **[Coronavirus update: Infections rise to more than 1,000 on University of...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/29/coronavirus-covid-updates/?utm_source=reddit.com)** > > The University of Alabama outbreak represents one of the largest coronavirus clusters reported at any academic institution since the start of the new school year. According to the [website](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQSD9mm5HTXhxAiHabZA6BPUByWBlP5HZ2jfOPEeGZkMB0ZFsmFBL5orqjIq22mjFNZ7n-11ObCylGn/pubhtml#gid=0) and [graphing feature](https://public.tableau.com/profile/jon.w1876#!/vizhome/COVID-19USSchools/Dashboard1) that the teacher who is collecting stats on student infection rates from newspaper reports, as of 9/1/20, there are 1,350 schools reporting infection with 4,953 cases and 37 deaths. The map is striking to me in that you could put a line in the middle of the country on that map and find the majority of the dots on the eastern (right) half of the country. I can only guess why that is. But just throwing a guess out there – most of the states in the west are remote learning only. Until recently and partially because the middle of the country is less populated, the midwest had lower infection rates. The spreadsheet the teacher is keeping is very detailed with info about each reported death. She (or someone) is doing a great job in keeping up with that spreadsheet. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1083 "2020-09-02T21:21:37Z")
In the discussions of school reopenings, there’s often some discussion of how it’s beneficial to open schools, outweighing some potential for community spread of infection because not opening schools would have a negative impact on children’s mental health. While that may be true, there haven’t been any studies on it that I’ve seen. This is the first study I’ve seen about it. This study says that some teenagers’ mental health has improved since the shut down. > **[School closures had positive effects on some teenagers’ mental health, our...](https://theconversation.com/school-closures-had-positive-effects-on-some-teenagers-mental-health-our-new-research-suggests-144884)** > > Being away from school may have had benefits for some teenagers. > [@](#): > > School closures across the UK have provided a unique opportunity to explore teenagers’ mental health and wellbeing when not in school. Perhaps surprisingly at first glance, our [recent study](https://sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peoples-Mental-Health-during-the-COVID-19-Pandemic-Report-Final.pdf) of year nine students in the south west of England actually suggested there might have been an overall reduction in anxiety, and an increase in wellbeing, in young people aged 13-14 during the coronavirus lockdown. > > The study raises questions about how the school environment affects younger teenagers’ mental health and wellbeing. > > Our findings suggest that the period of lockdown when students were not attending school may have protected them from some of the usual factors which can lead to poor mental health. These are likely to include the pressures of schoolwork and bullying, but also more subtle challenges in negotiating relationships with peers and with teachers. > . . . > On a more positive note, students felt more connected to school during lockdown. Removed from the stresses of conventional school life, teachers may have found new and better ways to connect and communicate with them during lockdown. It is important for schools to reflect on the changes they made during this period, and whether these might be continued. In addition, the study found that social media use increased but stress levels did not increase along with it, giving some evidence that social media use is not the only factor causing stress in children, as is sometimes posited. > [@](#): > > However, evidence is beginning to emerge that the link between social media use and mental health is more complex than is often argued. In our lockdown study, we found social media use increased among girls during this period. > . . . > Our study highlights the benefits of social media and digital platforms in enabling young people to stay in touch with friends and family, as well as staying connected with schools, at a time of physical separation. It seems now more than ever is a time for a more nuanced understanding of the benefits as well as the risks of social-media use for young people’s mental health and wellbeing. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1084 "2020-09-04T23:59:33Z")
Interesting [editorial](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6508/1146) published in Science. It starts out with a position that children “may be less susceptible to infection than older individuals but probably spread the infection at similar rates” (both counts quite open for debate) but then give guidelines much looser than Harvard’s GHI’s. > [@](#): > > Countries with widespread testing began opening schools with rigorous safety measures in place when fewer than 30 to 50 new infections were observed within 7 days per 100,000 residents over a prolonged period. Countries providing in-person schooling with basic mitigation measures (i.e., distancing, face masks worn in hallways but not classrooms, hand hygiene, ventilation, and staying home with minimal symptoms) typically have close to zero community [transmission](https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/children-and-school-settings-covid-19-transmission). … Up to 50 infections/100K community background rate okay and not masks in classrooms? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1085 "2020-09-05T12:11:42Z")
This jumped out at me from the second link: > If appropriate physical distancing and hygiene measures are applied, schools are unlikely to be more effective propagating environments than other occupational or leisure settings with similar densities of people. I guess it depends what other activities are open that have similar densities of people. I can’t think of anything that’s open today that shoved 30 people into a small room and holds them there for hours. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1086 "2020-09-05T13:19:24Z")
Here is a thing we are seeing. It won’t be 30, it will be 10 or 12 because at least 50% will opt for remote. If you are doong hybrid, that’s halved again. But school isn’t school. For us, at least, we are finding that if we are equally responsible for remote and in class kids at the same time, and in fact well over half are remote, the only feasible thing to do is design remote lessons and have the kids in class basically following along. So either way, they are on their chromebooks, wearing headphones, remote collaborating. It makes it safer, but it also makes it seem sorta pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1087 "2020-09-07T04:52:05Z")
NY Times tracker for coronavirus cases in colleges and universities. As of Sep. 3, 2020, there were over 51,000 cases from over 1,020 schools. There are totals by state and a search bar to search for a particular school. They also note that they left in cases from universities with teaching hospitals or other medical units. > **[Tracking the Coronavirus at U.S. Colleges and Universities (Published 2021)](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-college-cases-tracker.html)** > > College campuses, like the rest of the country, are enduring a coronavirus surge. > [@](#): > > As colleges start the academic year amid a pandemic, coronavirus cases are turning up by the thousands. > > A New York Times survey of more than 1,500 American colleges and universities — including every four-year public institution, every private college that competes in N.C.A.A. sports and others that identified cases — has revealed at least 51,000 cases and at least 60 deaths since the pandemic began. [may be paywalled but it wasn’t when I looked at it.] ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1088 "2020-09-07T05:06:20Z")
These are two very different types of environments (colleges/universities vs elementary/middle schools) and will have two very different types of results. College life includes many, many more opportunities for close contact than school does. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1089 "2020-09-07T12:02:41Z")
People in my town are trying to raise money to test all the kids and teachers before they go back to school, and from time to time after that. I’m not sure how many students would be physically on site at a time. That seems like a good idea. I wonder how the teachers feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1090 "2020-09-07T12:49:07Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Yup. The University of New Hampshire has contracted for testing over the summer but will begin doing its own testing directly on campus in September. I think this is probably going to be common place in mid-to-large colleges & universities, as others have already announced that they’ll soon be doing the same, like Northeastern University. Argh. We got an e-mail last night: there’s a cluster of 11 positives at one of the fraternities linked to a large/illicit party held on August 29th. Looks like they let us know a few hours before [the media](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-cluster-in-new-hampshire-linked-to-unh-fraternity-party/2190136/). We were talking at lunch on Friday, waiting for something like this to happen…makes those of us who have always worked off-campus in a satellite office (and currently from home) glad that we’re not in the thick of it on campus… I wonder how many colleges and universities are really going to make in through Thanksgiving without having to send everyone hope again. All this testing and making sure 100% of the students tested negative before being allowed on campus and then bi-weekly testing of all students and weekly testing of all on-campus faculty and staff, and there are **still** cases almost immediately…it doesn’t make me especially hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1091 "2020-09-07T13:01:11Z")
That tracker might be something useful if they both normalized by size of student/staff population of the programs (100 of 40,000 means something different than if 4,000), and differentiated between programs that are screening all students at least once if not routinely and those testing those symptomatic or close contact only. Another likely order of magnitude or more of difference in significance. It would further be useful to compare to rates in the same age groups not in college in their regions. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1092 "2020-09-07T13:40:04Z")
I would love to see college data split by: regular mandatory testing for those on campus Initial mandatory testing for those on campus Testing only for those with symptoms, or those who request it. Same age group not in college ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1093 "2020-09-07T16:54:05Z")
> I wonder how many colleges and universities are really going to make in through Thanksgiving without having to send everyone hope again. Speaking as someone who works in higher ed … probably a lot of schools will stay open through Thanksgiving, actually. I anticipate that mine will, although I wasn’t sure at the beginning of the semester. Sending students home is always a choice, not a “have to”; institutions can make other choices too, and at the moment there are a whole range of responses going on at different colleges and universities, ranging from “put the whole campus on lockdown and make everyone stay in their dorm room” to “do almost nothing.” (I am not saying that either one of these is a GOOD response, but time will tell.) In general, I think the pendulum has swung away from “close down the whole campus for the entire semester” to “do something more moderate, like quarantining infected students and their close contacts, or going online for two weeks but telling everyone to stay put” over the course of the last few weeks, in large part because the UNC debacle got so much bad publicity. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1094 "2020-09-07T17:56:24Z")
They may hope that if they close everything, go to remote classes and all but restrict kids to dorm rooms, lots will go home, but not be in a position to demand refunds. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1095 "2020-09-07T18:19:29Z")
The smaller colleges, say 2,000 students or less and especially those in remote towns and all or most students live in the same housing are definitely going to come out better on this because they can set up more controls and have a smaller group to manage. A friends kid goes to a small Christian college in Colorado and they are basically going to be in quarantine until winter break. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1096 "2020-09-07T18:21:20Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > People in my town are trying to raise money to test all the kids and teachers before they go back to school, and from time to time after that. I’m not sure how many students would be physically on site at a time. > > That seems like a good idea. I wonder how the teachers feel about it. Not sure about that school but here in Kansas some teachers are almost on strike refusing to go back and there have also been a load of retirements. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1097 "2020-09-08T02:37:00Z")
My kid’s school just decided to resume preK-2 as in school for four days per week, starting at the end of September. Unless they change their mind again. The decision was supposedly made by an advisory panel of parents, teachers, and administrators. As my wife asked, “are there any scientists on the panel?” Unless the school changes their mind again, I expect we’ll send our second grader. Other districts in the area are open, but at less than two weeks of school so far, it is probably too early to draw any conclusions. Or, none have closed, and no stories of outbreaks have hit the news. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2020, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1098 "2020-09-09T11:53:36Z")
We decided to start the year by going Total Remote Learning with the added statement that the district would reassess the situation at the end of the first quarter which, for us, is Halloween. The unofficial word already, however, is that we will stay remote until the beginning of the 4th quarter at the earliest. It makes sense. Viruses are generally most benign in the summer, especially in July and August when it is hot and sunny. With the flu season coming up, it is very likely that the virus will make a comeback much like flu and cold viruses do. Going hybrid on November 1st after staying Total Remote in August? Not likely. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1099 "2020-09-10T01:09:56Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > We decided to start the year by going Total Remote Learning with the added statement that the district would reassess the situation at the end of the first quarter which, for us, is Halloween. The unofficial word already, however, is that we will stay remote until the beginning of the 4th quarter at the earliest. We started the year in a “near normal” scenario, with masks everywhere (including us teachers unless we can keep six feet of distance to the nearest student) and hand sanitizer and two subjects over the whole day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. We shall see how it goes, but it’s only been two days of full classes. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1100 "2020-09-10T11:28:02Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > We started the year in a “near normal” scenario, with masks everywhere (including us teachers unless we can keep six feet of distance to the nearest student) and hand sanitizer and two subjects over the whole day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon. We shall see how it goes, but it’s only been two days of full classes. I certainly wish you all good fortune and hope you can pull it off. Loyola and U of W at Madison started full attendance, and both have had to close down and go Total Remote. On the news last night, it was stated that at least 20% of the UW-Madison students were testing positive. That was stunning considering it is only September. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1101 "2020-09-11T18:17:22Z")
My children’s school got a waiver for K-6 and will be opening next week. It’s a really tiny school, fewer than 30 kids total (!), and they’re dividing it up into three cohorts anyway. My older child is in a cohort of 4 and my younger child is in a cohort of 9, and before they got the waiver the parents of younger kids had already basically formed pods corresponding to the cohorts anyway. For my younger child’s pod/cohort I had to fill out a whole detailed thing on how much risk we were taking, promise to eschew any kind of group or indoor activities, etc. Anyway, I’m totally not concerned about that school reopening. A couple more private schools got waivers and will be opening in my area. All of them are fairly small, even if not as tiny as my kids’ school. The public schools (which I yanked my younger kid from this summer) are not pursuing waivers yet, which I think is very wise of them – much larger schools, much larger cohorts, more possibility for community spread. Our part of the county looks OK but the county as a whole is in the governor’s “you suck” range of his metric. (We’re in California.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=56)