# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1142 "2020-10-01T07:14:06Z")
A large contact tracing study out of India shows children to spread infection more than in previous studies and finds that super spreaders may be the key to rates of infection. > **[Largest COVID-19 contact-tracing finds children key to spread, evidence of...](https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-09-largest-covid-contact-tracing-children-key.html)** > > A study of more than a half-million people in India who were exposed to the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, or COVID-19, suggests that the virus' continued spread is driven by only a small percentage of those who become infected. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, children and [young adults](https://medicalxpress.com/tags/young+adults/) were found to be potentially much more important to transmitting the virus—especially within households—than previous studies have identified, according to a paper by researchers from the United States and India published Sept. 30 in the journal _Science_ . > . . . > Lead researcher Ramanan Laxminarayan, a senior research scholar in PEI, said that the paper is the first large study to capture the extraordinary extent to which COVID-19 hinges on “superspreading,” in which a small percentage of the infected population passes the virus on to more people. The researchers found that 71% of infected individuals did not infect any of their contacts, while a mere 8% of infected individuals accounted for 60% of new infections. This is the study cited in the article. [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672) > [@](#): > > Whereas secondary attack rate estimates did not differ considerably by the sex of cases and their contacts ([Fig. 2B](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#F2)), analyses stratified by case and contact age identified the highest probability of transmission, given exposure, within case-contact pairs of similar age ([Fig. 2C](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#F2) and table S8). These patterns of enhanced transmission risk in similar-age pairs were strongest among children ages 0-14 years and among adults ages ≥65 years, and may reflect differences in the nature of intragenerational and intergenerational social and physical interactions in India ([_27_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-27)). Nonetheless, the greatest proportion of test-positive contacts within most age groups were exposed to index cases ages 20-44 years ([Fig. 2C](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#F2), fig. S5, and table S8). As serological surveys in other settings have demonstrated that case-based surveillance may lead to under-estimation of SARS-CoV-2 infection prevalence among children ([_28_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-28), [_29_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-29)), it remains crucial to establish whether the role of children in transmission is underestimated in studies such as ours using case-based surveillance to identify index infections. As for mortality within age groups, > [@](#): > > In a sub-cohort of 102,569 cases in Tamil Nadu and 22,315 cases in Andhra Pradesh who tested positive at least 30 days before the end of the study follow-up period, the overall case-fatality ratio was 2.06% (1.98-2.14%; [Fig. 3](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#F3)). Age-specific estimates ranged from 0.05% (0.012-0.11%) at ages 5-17 years to 16.6% (13.4-19.9%) at ages ≥85 years. Risk of death was higher among male cases than among female cases overall, and the magnitude of this difference widened in the oldest age groups. Higher mortality in older age groups and among males have similarly been observed in high-income settings ([_1_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-1)–[_7_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-7), [_30_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-30)–[_32_](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672#ref-32)). Some differences in age group findings in India and the US. Infection rates were higher among children in India. > [@](#): > > Although lower across all age groups in Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh in comparison to the United States, age-specific COVID-19 incidence increased sharply in both settings between the 5-17 year and 18-29 year age groups. Whereas incidence declined steadily at ages older than 30-39 years in the two Indian states, incidence increased at ages ≥65 years in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1143 "2020-10-01T15:37:01Z")
That is a very interesting article and the [figure 2](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672/F2.large.jpg) in particular is fascinating, if taking some thought to parse out. [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672/F2.large.jpg](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672/F2.large.jpg) First of all the article confirms in the Indian population what has been seen otherwise, the role of superspreaders. And in [figure 4](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672/F4.large.jpg) confirms that there are similarly relatively few cases of COVID-19 in the Indian 17 and under population. But most pertinent to this thread it also confirms what was previously seen in smaller studies early on, that _kids are NOT spreading to adults much_ even in these crowded circumstances. Instead what is found is that given a child who is infected (an index case) the odds, especially for those 14 and under, are that they have contacts near their age also infected. (Of course they could be the source or they could be all infected by the same single adult, but the assumption of the authors is that they are the source.) But children who are identified index cases have very very few adult contacts who are positive in both all-contact and high-risk contact circumstances. Moreover, when a child 14 and under is an infected contact the index was almost always an adult in their 30s to 40s. And an adult infected contact very rarely had a child index case (see C12). VERY reassuring. Meanwhile also this week is more reassurance that there do NOT seem to be large amounts of children asymptomatic around (able to transmit effectively or not). > **[Frequency of Children vs Adults Carrying SARS-CoV-2 Asymptomatically](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2770117)** > > This case-control study compares the rates of test results indicating SARS-CoV-2 infection among children and adults admitted to a single hospital in Milan, Italy, for noninfectious reasons and without COVID-19 symptoms. > [@](#): > > In this study conducted among individuals hospitalized in Milan, one of the cities with the highest SARS-CoV-2 burden in the world, about 1% of children and 9% of adults without any symptoms or signs of SARS-CoV-2 infection tested positive for the virus. … > > … In this study, children without symptoms and signs of SARS-CoV-2 carried the virus less frequently than adults, suggesting that their role as facilitators of the spreading of SARS-CoV-2 infection could be reconsidered. … these data do not support the hypothesis that children are at higher risk of carrying SARS-CoV-2 asymptomatically than adults. Put together these two articles, are _extremely_ reassuring that kids DO NOT play a significant role as “silent spreaders” to higher risk adults or the community at large, even in the most crowded living conditions (India) and even with high background community transmission rates (Italy). ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1144 "2020-10-01T16:51:33Z")
Thanks for the study, which is interesting. Double-plus-good thanks for the study, which is very reassuring indeed. Surprisingly so. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1145 "2020-10-01T17:01:58Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But most pertinent to this thread it also confirms what was previously seen in smaller studies early on, that _kids are NOT spreading to adults much_ Speaking of pertinent, it was already pointed out that elementary to middle students not transmitting the virus as much as high schooners or adults does not take away the fact that the ones with the most danger, like teachers or staffers, have their risks increased still. Again, not much for the students but for the older adults in the schools. (Although the study you quoted still has to add a “could be reconsidered” it does not really makes it as reassuring as you assume) ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1146 "2020-10-01T18:46:45Z")
Anecdote is not data, but since my child went back to daycare in the summer we have been sick three times! None of those times has been Covid. (Twice it lasted for only a day or two, and the third time lasted longer but coincided with some elementary schools starting so a bunch of people went to get tested – nope, just a cold.) So the kids are happily passing around all kinds of germs! Just… not Covid-19. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1147 "2020-10-02T00:58:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > teachers or staffers, have their risks increased still. Not sure I am getting your point. Is there something from how you understand these studies that makes you think that, or is it simply that a person who is working even in an environment of low exposure risk is still at greater risk than if they had no exposure at all? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1148 "2020-10-02T01:13:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Not sure I am getting your point. Is there something from how you understand these studies that makes you think that, or is it simply that a person who is working even in an environment of low exposure risk is still at greater risk than if they had no exposure at all? > **[10 facts about school reopenings in the Covid-19 pandemic](https://www.vox.com/2020/10/1/21493602/covid-19-schools-reopening-nyc-florida-hybrid)** > > Schools across America have opened their doors. Here’s how it’s going so far. > ### 5) Teachers and staff were infected at a rate of 0.19 percent, more than twice the rate of students > > Whatever you think about the rate of student infection, one thing is clear: The rate for teachers and staff is higher. In the Covid dashboard sample, 0.19 percent of teachers and other adults in schools had a confirmed infection between the end of August and mid-September. When you add in suspected cases, the rate rises to 0.61 percent. > > The difference between staff and student infection rates adds to an existing body of evidence suggesting that opening schools poses a greater risk to adults than to children. From data in the US and abroad, “we know that if you have limited control measures in place, and have transmission going on in the school, that it is likely that teachers would become infected,” Guthrie said. > > A [study](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/911267/School_Outbreaks_Analysis.pdf) of schools open in the UK this summer, for example, found 70 cases among students (out of about 843,430 total students) and 128 among staff (out of about 519,590 total staff members). The majority of cases linked to in-school outbreaks, as opposed to out-of-school transmission, appeared in staff as well. > > The dashboard data underscores the fact that adults in schools appear to contract Covid-19 at a higher rate than children — something especially concerning since they are also more likely to become seriously ill from the virus. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1149 "2020-10-02T01:42:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > White House pressured CDC on reopening schools, officials say Hey, Donnie Dumbass, even if the virus vanished like a miracle tomorrow like you told us it was going to do in April, it’s too late for the economy to show any noticeable improvement before Election Day. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1150 "2020-10-02T02:23:00Z")
Still not understanding your point. Yes adults are of those with confirmed infections much much more commonly than are children. Overall adults rates are 10 to 40 times as high as kids’ rates are depending on the age group. Teachers being only twice as high is indicative of them being at much lower risk than are other adults in other circumstances. Is that your point? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1151 "2020-10-02T02:49:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Teachers being only twice as high is indicative of them being at much lower risk than are other adults in other circumstances. > > Is that your point? 🤔 Can you show me where are studies that talk about items that are twice as high as an unwanted item to be indicative that the persons affected are _at much lower risk_? It does not seem to be, how is that a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1152 "2020-10-02T03:14:30Z")
What confuses you? The adult general population is at 10 times to much more than the rate in children. Okay that’s U.S. In the U.K. it seems more like 5x plus. Being at twice the rate of children is much less than that, relatively low compared to other adults. Compared to other adults doing other things that is a good thing. Not a magic shield of protection but if accurate at substantially less risk than general population adults. Relatively lower risk than others of your age group is a good thing. Yes? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1153 "2020-10-02T03:33:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Relatively lower risk than others of your age group is a good thing. Yes? Sounds a lot like a smoker’s right proponent from the past; again, relatively lower risk to what? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1154 "2020-10-02T10:26:29Z")
Huh? An adult has no option of being a child. Yes adults’ risks must be compared to other adults’ risks. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1155 "2020-10-02T10:51:53Z")
Another article about [the study](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/09/29/science.abd7672) in post 1142. > **[Largest COVID-19 contact tracing study to date finds children key to spread,...](https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/09/30/largest-covid-19-contact-tracing-study-date-finds-children-key-spread-evidence)** > > Researchers from the Princeton Environmental Institute find the continued spread of novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 is driven by only a small percentage of those who become infected. > [@](#): > > The researchers also reported, however, the first large-scale evidence that the implementation of a countrywide shutdown in India led to substantial reductions in coronavirus transmission. > > The researchers found that the chances of a person with coronavirus, regardless of their age, passing it on to a close contact ranged from 2.6% in the community to 9% in the household. The researchers found that children and young adults — who made up one-third of COVID cases — were especially key to transmitting the virus in the studied populations. > > “Kids are very efficient transmitters in this setting, which is something that hasn’t been firmly established in previous studies,” Laxminarayan said. “We found that reported cases and deaths have been more concentrated in younger cohorts than we expected based on observations in higher-income countries.” This study from a couple weeks ago also sheds some light on whether children can and do transmit the virus to adults. > **[Young children can spread Covid to adults, new CDC report says](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-babies-children-spread-adults-coronavirus-schools-daycare-cdc-research-b431773.html)** > > A baby who contracted Covid-19 at daycare spread the virus to a parent, who then had to be hospitalised > [@](#): > > Children and babies as young as eight months old have been shown to transmit Covid-19 to adults after outbreaks at three childcare centres, according to the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. > > The findings come as schools and daycare facilities across the country increasingly reopen to in-person contact, with the CDC continuing its research for guidance on controlling the spread of coronavirus. > > The new report, released late on Friday, studied coronavirus outbreaks at three childcare facilities, attended by 83 kids, in Salt Lake City, Utah from 1 April to 10 July. > > Twelve children under the age of 10, who likely contracted the virus at daycare, were found to have infected some of their parents or siblings after returning home, even if they showed no signs or symptoms. > > Researchers said that previous studies have shown children aged over 10 years could spread the virus in schools, but this new study is clearer evidence it can be spread by younger children who don’t get severely sick. > > While those who did show symptoms were mild, one case of an eight-month-old who spread it to both parents required one of them to be hospitalised. > > Of the 12 documented cases in children, Covid-19 was spread to at least another 12 people of the 46 they came into contact with who were not related to the childcare centre, such as parents, siblings, and other family members. > > “Covid-19 is less severe in children than it is in adults, but children can still play a role in transmission,” the CDC report said. Taken together, the two studies show that children can and do transmit the virus, that children contract the virus at higher rates than previously thought (albeit not as high as adults) and that children can become super spreaders to adults and children, particularly as more children spread it to other children. That increases the possibility of more super spreaders. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1156 "2020-10-02T14:32:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Huh? > > An adult has no option of being a child. Yes adults’ risks must be compared to other adults’ risks. Uh, smokers are adults, again I only see mostly talking points about kids not transmitting this or not being affected much (that are not really so reassuring as Heffalump\_and Roo and others point out). That is nice and already acknowledged, it does not refute that you are minimizing the risks for the teachers and staffers thanks to the very inadequate leadership that we have in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1157 "2020-10-02T14:42:26Z")
I am seriously not making any sense out of what you are saying. Yes smokers are adults and adult smokers have higher mortality rates than matched non-smokers. Teachers are adults. According to your source they have twice the rate of COVID-19 than kids. Other U.K. adults have five times the rates of kids. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1158 "2020-10-02T14:52:21Z")
The study in Science of transmission in India saw very little (not zero) transmission from children to adults. Yes it does happen, uncommonly but non-zero. They can and do at low rates. There will cases seen in which such occurs given all the cases that happen. But you have made some false statements. The numbers of cases in children in India was low, similar to US rates. I linked to the figure that shows that. What it demonstrated in regards to kids is that an index positive child may have positive child contacts at rates similar to adults. It also clearly shows that most positive contact kids seem to have had an adult index case. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1159 "2020-10-02T16:27:01Z")
That was the point. There seems to be still a very cavalier attitude to the risks teachers and staffers are being put through in the US. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1160 "2020-10-02T19:19:18Z")
Look I am skeptical of the numbers the article cited as fairly small n and selection bias, but _if_ one was to go by them _working in a school LOWERS an adult’s risk compared adults who do not work in schools_. It may _even_ be true as their jobs put them in _less_ close adult to adult contact than other many adults face, and under strong mitigation behavior guidance. And IF a contributing reason for the lower rate of infection in children is more recent and frequent exposures to the other hCoVs, well like pediatricians, teachers are an adult group with such frequent and relatively recent exposures. But what it most certainly does NOT support is that teachers and staffers go into work are at higher risk than other adults are. Let’s look at it another way. Some crude rough math. The average daily rate in the U.K. “between the end of August and mid-September” (roughly three weeks?) ranged from 16 to 53/m. Let’s pick a low middle number of 30. 30/m/d times 21d times .52 million total staff members = 328 expected confirmed cases among U.K. staff members in schools if they are at average risk for U.K. adults. Call that “between the end of August and mid-September” just two weeks and it’s down to 218. Total actually with confirmed infections was 128. A MUCH lower rate of confirmed infections among adults not working in schools. All the more shocking given that I would hope and expect that school staffers would be getting tested on lower suspicion than the average citizen and have fewer missed cases. There is really no way to spin the numbers that article cited as other than reassuring for teachers that they are at fairly LOW risk compared to other adults. The fact that kids, even when likely being tested at the slightest sniffle or headache complaint, are much lower numbers, does not make their risk worse. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/1161 "2020-10-02T19:48:37Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Look I am skeptical of the numbers the article cited as fairly small n and selection bias, but _if_ one was to go by them _working in a school LOWERS an adult’s risk compared adults who do not work in schools_ . Right away one can notice a pernicious cherry pick, that was acknowledged already, you are mostly looking there at the numbers for elementary or middle schools. That changes a lot for high school and colleges. So of course there is another reason why to dismiss your cherry pick, the US is not really a very civilized country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=59)