# Opening schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247 "2020-05-21T15:36:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/101 "2020-05-26T14:27:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Manda Jo** : > > Which aspects of 1st grade do you think are immutable? Because a lot of what we now teach in 1st grade used to be second grade. Language skills, in particular learning to read and write. Which is a process that takes multiple years, but taking a year off right in the middle is just not going to work. And it’s not something that can be particularly taught online. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/102 "2020-05-26T14:34:45Z")
Do you have any evidence for that? I am not saying it’s ideal, by any means, but provided the kids are not then thrown in an environment where they are expected to perform at a higher level than they’ve been taught, I don’t see any reason why they can’t be caught up. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/103 "2020-05-26T15:09:33Z")
When you say “catch up”, do you mean just teach everything faster, add time to the school year or drop useless filler stuff that’s in the curriculum? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/104 "2020-05-26T15:23:48Z")
I mean that there’s a fair bit of redundancy and review built in, and that that time can be used to present new content instead of review. If school opens in fall, we only have about half a semester to make up. I think that will take 18 months to two years. If we miss all of next semester or something, we’d need a more radical plan. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/105 "2020-05-26T16:59:35Z")
My biggest concern right now is that folks will settle into an opinion without having the solid science to support their opinion, and then will treat the opinion as part of their identity, defending it against new evidence as we learn more about the interaction between gatherings of children and spread of this disease. As this becomes increasingly politicized, we make increasingly poor decisions. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/106 "2020-05-26T17:11:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My biggest concern right now is that folks will settle into an opinion without having the solid science to support their opinion, and then will treat the opinion as part of their identity, defending it against new evidence as we learn more about the interaction between gatherings of children and spread of this disease. As this becomes increasingly politicized, we make increasingly poor decisions. That horse hasn’t just left the barn – he’s joined up with like minded horses and colonized Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/107 "2020-05-26T17:16:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That horse hasn’t just left the barn – he’s joined up with like minded horses and colonized Mars. You’re right, but I guess I’m encouraging folks here not to wear the team jersey just yet. By all means make some very preliminary observations–but be willing to change your mind given new evidence coming in, don’t marry yourself to one position. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/108 "2020-05-26T17:45:07Z")
So how crazily impossible would it be to start school a month or so earlier next year to try to make up? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/109 "2020-05-26T17:51:19Z")
Next year meaning in 2021? I don’t think it’s too crazy, if the pandemic is over. I think we might want to consider some year-round school schedules even (with a month summer vacation). That said, I hope that it’ll be funded. If teachers are asked to work for an extra month, I hope it’s not on a volunteer basis. Lots of teachers work summer jobs to cover income loss. NC schools are considering adding extra days to the calendar by removing workdays. This is not a great plan, and was probably created by someone who doesn’t know how precious workdays are for planning, grading, and other administrative tasks. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/110 "2020-05-26T17:53:15Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > In some ways, if half the parents, the ones who could, kept their kids home and engaged in distance learning, that would be perfect. It would be easier to socially distance at school. Kids who needed access to food or internet could be at school. Parents who had to go to work would be able to. EVERYONE would be safer. And I am pretty confident I could come up with a hybrid system. > > I wish they would survey now to see how many would or could keep kids home and supervise their education. This is one of the plans the district my kid attends has. They are making multiple plans, from continuing with complete remote education to fully open schools with enhanced sanitation and other things. The first step up from fully remote is that most students will be remote, but that students who can’t do remote learning will be allowed to attend school in small groups. The goal is to attempt to prevent those students from being completely left behind. Who exactly will be eligible is a different discussion. The district did send out a survey. It was basically a single questions: If we open up schools in some capacity and you are allowed to send your kids, will you send your kids? I also think the discussion about kids being left behind and vital learning opportunities being missed is a bit overblown. Kids are extremely resilient, and all over the country kids are going to be behind similarly. Obviously this is going to increase the variance between the top kids and the lowest kids, but for most kids they’ll either be caught up, or working within a system that is expecting them to be behind and compensating. For example, learning long division in 4th grade instead of 3rd (or whatever the grades are taught in) will just be the new normal. Will the kids that would have been ready for AP calculus in high school still be ready for it in 6-8 years? Probably. Kids will be older and more mature the first time they see new concepts, which in many cases will help. For the things like socialization that is being missed out on, there are other helpful things like free play that kids are getting more of. At least in my district, and my kid’s school, grade, and class, they didn’t get very behind despite remote learning for the last two months. The math lessons went through the end of the workbook, language learning went to the end units for first grade. Social studies and history covered several topics. Did they miss some things? Certainly. Did the keep up on the fundamentals? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/111 "2020-05-26T18:52:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My biggest concern right now is that folks will settle into an opinion without having the solid science to support their opinion, and then will treat the opinion as part of their identity, defending it against new evidence as we learn more about the interaction between gatherings of children and spread of this disease. As this becomes increasingly politicized, we make increasingly poor decisions. Very much this. I’m pretty agnostic, because we really don’t know what the science tells us. There are so many layers to this, so many trade-offs. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/112 "2020-05-27T01:08:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I mean that there’s a fair bit of redundancy and review built in, and that that time can be used to present new content instead of review. … For some portion the one time through was what they needed to master the material well enough to move on to new content that sometimes requires that mastery of skills and material that have come before. Tell them once and they get it, retain it, and can use it in different contexts later. But for many others? The redundancy and review _is there for a reason_, and I know you know this. Repeated exposure to material and using skills in a variety of contexts is a basic education approach. _Many_ kids won’t have enough mastery to move on without it. Trying to build the next floor without the foundation, without the next floor having its support beams in place, is not going to get anything useful built. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/113 "2020-05-27T01:41:41Z")
That’s not what I am saying. As I’ve said several times, with the missed time, we will have to restructure things for the whole cohort and it will take time to catch them up . . .I’d guess a couple years to make up the 12 weeks we lost. But the redundancy and review already baked in makes that possible, especially for the younger kids. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/114 "2020-06-01T00:28:58Z")
Still no new surges in the countries that have opened schools. [Is It Safe to Reopen Schools? These Countries Say Yes - WSJ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/is-it-safe-to-reopen-schools-these-countries-say-yes-11590928949) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/115 "2020-06-01T20:45:16Z")
My wife the schoolteacher has come to the conclusion that it is impossible to make schools safe by this fall, and she’s just about to refuse to go back if they do open. She’s basically freaking out about the situation. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/116 "2020-06-01T22:08:54Z")
I think our primary schools opened the 11th of may (Netherlands). No rise in cases yet. I think today had the best numbers since early March. Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/117 "2020-06-01T22:11:39Z")
> **[Anger, frustration as coronavirus rules neglected at Jerusalem school](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/anger-frustration-as-coronavirus-rules-neglected-at-jerusalem-school-629792)** > > 'Just like the outbreak happened in my school, it could also have happened on the beaches with hundreds of people, the crowded parties, the mall and every other school.' > [@](#): > > Students and parents at the Gymnasia Rehavia school in Jerusalem expressed anger at the conduct of both students and the school’s administration as the school became one of the epicenters of the newest round of coronavirus outbreaks in Israel, with **104 students, 15 staff members and three parents confirmed as being infected so far.** ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/118 "2020-06-01T23:25:53Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > [Anger, frustration as coronavirus rules neglected at Jerusalem school - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/anger-frustration-as-coronavirus-rules-neglected-at-jerusalem-school-629792) Thank you for this. [Here](https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-school-concerns-mount-all-from-jerusalem-high-school-hit-by-virus-isolated/) is more information. > [@](#): > > All students and teachers at Jerusalem’s Gymnasia High School will enter quarantine for over a week after over 100 people there contracted COVID-19, in the largest concentrated outbreak of the virus since infections began to wane earlier this month. … > > … According to Channel 12, a “super-spreader” teacher at the Rehavia neighorbood-based school caused the mass infections, after coming in to teach despite knowing he was sick. > > Students confirmed this account of the sick teacher in interviews with public radio on Sunday morning, with one also telling Army Radio that the teaching staff “derided our concerns. Teachers said the coronavirus was over.” … > > … While the Gymnasia school was the epicenter of the latest outbreak, additional confirmed cases and suspected infections prompted the closures of some 17 schools and daycare centers around the country, according to Channel 12. … Schools will certainly not be immune. Individual schools will have cases and need to dealt with appropriately when they occur. A super-spreader teacher behaving poorly (and other teachers also behaving badly) can/will spread to other adults and to children. In a case like this one hopes for several things: 1. That the Israelis do not waste the rare opportunity [like the Swedes did](https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/how-sweden-wasted-rare-opportunity-study-coronavirus-schools) (as linked to earlier in this thread). They don’t seem as if they are but study of the cluster is in progress. What is the primary directionality of the spread? How contagious were children who caught it? Did it vary by age? How many tested positive but were asymptomatic? These are critical things to pin down and the number of cases in schools have been so few (thankfully) that they are near complete unknowns. 2. That best practices (and not-best ones) can be highlighted. 3. That no one gets seriously ill. Preliminary information is that it was an adult super-spreader who failed to engage in any of the recommended best practices who was the prime source of spread, but that some spread by High School students may also have occurred. Possibly some spread by middle school aged as well but not yet clear. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/119 "2020-06-02T07:32:15Z")
As a result of the case mentioned above, yesterday my son’s Tel Aviv middle school decided to go back to studying from home at least until next week, purely as a precaution. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247/120 "2020-06-02T08:00:49Z")
[5 out of 12 Danish students who traveled to Sweden got infected with COVID-19, class will receive remote education](https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/hel-aargang-sendt-hjem-fem-gymnasieelever-smittet-med-corona-efter-tur-til-sverige) > [@](#): > > 12 students at Roskilde Cathedral spent the Ascension holiday in Sweden. After that, five of them have been infected with corona. That’s what TV2 Lorry writes. > > After consulting with the Board of Patient Safety, the school’s > Rector, Claus Niller Nielsen, canceled all physical education for students in 1st grade for 14 days. > . . . > "Of course, it is terribly regrettable, but in light of invitations from the Danish Patient Safety Authority, I see no other way out, "writes Claus Niller Nielsen. > . . . > Of course, the students are concerned about this, but not more than usual, says Aksel Winther Groth. > Travel to Sweden is not recommended Twelve students from Denmark spent a holiday in Sweden. Five of them got coronavirus, leading the school to cancel classes for the first grade and move to remote education for a couple weeks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opening-schools/854247.md?page=7)