# Openly Atheist Characters on TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416 "2004-12-17T21:05:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/61 "2004-12-18T13:37:58Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > I’m not sure who said that… was it G. K. Chesterton? Beats me, but since we’re in CS I won’t say what I think about the aphorism. In any case, if that does apply to Mulder, it comes with the caveat that he’s right almost all the time. That was one occasionally annoying thing about the show: Scully was scientific, logical, rational, and almost always wrong, while Mulder would make incredible leaps and assumptions and was usually right. Sure, it’s TV, but hey. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/62 "2004-12-18T16:07:24Z")
I’ve always felt that Tara McClay, on Buffy, was an atheist. Spoilers for the 6th Season After Buffy falls from what she refers to as _heaven_, Tara refers to it in “Tabula Rasa” as _heavenly dimensions_, indicating that she doesn’t believe that Buffy was in a higher place, just a different place. I agree with **Otto** , that atheism seems the norm for the TNG setting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/63 "2004-12-18T17:13:10Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > I’ve always felt that Tara McClay, on Buffy, was an atheist. Pretty sure she was a Wiccan. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/64 "2004-12-18T17:34:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Tom Skerrit’s character (the Sherrif) on “Picket Fences” was an atheist. That’s one of the few shows I can think of that took religion serously, and had religious figures that actually belonged to churches. It’s not network TV, but **Six Feet Under** is really realistic in the way it handles religion - I’ve only seen the first two seasons, but the characters go to different churches or no church, they go even when it’s not abdsolutely required by the plot, the mom wants her kids to go, there was a plot line where the gay son is invited to become a deacon at the mom’s church (he’d been going to the “liberal” gay friendly church elsewhere) and struggles with accepting the position when he knows that if they knew he was gay they wouldn’t want him, etc. Granted, it _is_ a show about death and dying (and when David considered the deacon gig he did talk about how it would drum up business for the family funeral home) but generally I think the religion is handled really realistically - some people go to church and it’s important in their lives, some don’t go, some do out of habit or on Easter Sunday. They don’t make a big deal out of it in the show, it’s just a part of their lives (or not, as the case may be.) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/65 "2004-12-18T17:39:58Z")
I dunno. Fox Mulder may be agnostic, but he _wants_ to believe! ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/66 "2004-12-18T18:02:07Z")
Holling Vencour on Northern Exposure. There were a couple episodes dealing with his conflict with Catholic Shelly. And somebody on the thread that inspired this said Ruth Ann was as well although I don’t remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/67 "2004-12-18T18:11:18Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Holling Vencour on Northern Exposure. There were a couple episodes dealing with his conflict with Catholic Shelly. And somebody on the thread that inspired this said Ruth Ann was as well although I don’t remember that. Oh, I came into this thread just to mention **Northern Exposure**! I do remember an episode where someone expressed surprise that Ruth Ann was an atheist. Although I think Ruth Ann’s response indicated that she was more of an agnostic. IIRC she wasn’t certain that there was no “higher power”, but didn’t think that humans could have any understanding of what such a being might be like if it did exist. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/68 "2004-12-18T18:16:31Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Hawkeye Pierce was a self-described agnostic. Some minor **M_A_S\*H** character described himself as an atheist. Hawkeye said “Really?” The guy replied “Oh, yeah. Swear to God.” Possibly. Although, in another episode, Mulcahy is having doubts as to whether or not he is doing any good in his role as a priest, and Pierce tells him that he (Pierce) has been empowered to do things that “I am not a good enough surgeon to do”. And when they make up the fake doctor, Trapper John wants to make him an atheist, and Pierce says, “I don’t believe in atheism”. He is joking, doubtless, but… Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/69 "2004-12-18T18:17:10Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Who’s Blish? James Blish. Wrote novelizations of the ST: TOS episodes and sometimes included details that were not part of the episodes as aired 9IIRC he sometimes worked off non-finalized scripts). One I remember in particular was from his writing up “Who Mourns for Adonais?” when it’s revealed that the woman from the landing party is pregnant by Apollo. Not in the ep as airde; would’ve made it much more interesting though. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/70 "2004-12-18T18:19:09Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Who’s Blish? I remembered her as kneeling when Kirk walks in, and I thought they used the word “chapel”, but I’m probably just remembering it wrong. > > I still don’t think they were atheists, though. In another episode, Kirk says that their crew represents “many beliefs”. Again, I can’t remember which episode; perhaps you know. Author James Blish who wrote the authorized novelizations of the episodes. Maybe a reference to Nurse Chapel? _G_ Easiest answer to Trek religiosity Qs- depending on the series, what Rodenberry thought he could get away with & the point he was trying to make with an episode, it’s all dodgy. He was atheist & sometimes tried to promote that view, but he couldn’t escape the mythic & spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/71 "2004-12-18T19:21:31Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > He was actually a pantheist; believing God was in all things. > > Well, except kitchen utensils. He wasn’t a _frying_ pantheist. In the series 5 episode “Back to Reality” there’s a bit that goes like this, after they hallucinate ‘Red Dwarf’ and thier past adventures to be part of a virtual reality video game: ANDY (refering to RIMMER): He was a hand-picked special agent for the Space Corps. He had his memory erased and was programmed to behave like a complete twonk so no one would suspect he was on a mission to destroy Red Dwarf in order to guide Lister to his destiny as the creator of the second universe! LISTER: You what?! ANDY: Yeah! You know the bit where Lister jump starts the second big bang with jump leads from Starbug? RIMMER: (Incredulous) Jump starts the second big bang? ANDY: Well, that’s the final irony, isn’t it? Lister, the ultimate atheist, turns out in fact to be God! LISTER: What?! ANDY: It’s all in the Captain’s message. It’s all in the microdot. Hang on a minute! Are you … are you seriously telling me you were playing the prat version of Rimmer for all that time? For four years?! Wow, that’s a classic that is! That’s a classic! There’s the ‘Alone in a Godless universe’ theme throughout Red Dwarf, too. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/72 "2004-12-18T20:14:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Possibly. Although, in another episode, Mulcahy is having doubts as to whether or not he is doing any good in his role as a priest, and Pierce tells him that he (Pierce) has been empowered to do things that “I am not a good enough surgeon to do”. Yeah but I’d put that in the same catagory as Mike and Edith. (Not that he was lying to him, more that…I know you’ll interpet this as reflecting the prescence of god so I’ll tell you about it to help you out.) Anyway in another scene with him he tells him what a great priest he is and Mulcahy “You crazy agnostic, you”. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/73 "2004-12-18T20:31:32Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I remembered her as kneeling when Kirk walks in, and I thought they used the word “chapel”, but I’m probably just remembering it wrong. You’re not nuts, they DO call it “the chapel”; and it IS in _Balance_ itself that Kirk mentions “many beliefs”. And on _Who mourns…_ Kirk does indeed say “we need no gods besides the One”. It made the final cut, so it’s “canonical” (har, har). In any case, it’s not as if in the Trek universe there are NO religions. Just that it’s either shown or implied they are all somehow bogus (the Bajorans’ Cosmic Prophets are really aliens up a wormhole; Kahless the Klingon messiah is really a clone of a historic figure; all other gods are aliens, supercomputers or what have you that our heroes must destroy); the notable exception among humans is _Chakotay_, but then he’s of a “safe” spirituality. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/74 "2004-12-18T21:41:50Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > I’ve always felt that Tara McClay, on Buffy, was an atheist. > > Spoilers for the 6th Season > > After Buffy falls from what she refers to as _heaven_, Tara refers to it in “Tabula Rasa” as _heavenly dimensions_, indicating that she doesn’t believe that Buffy was in a higher place, just a different place. > > I agree with **Otto** , that atheism seems the norm for the TNG setting. She may not believe in the Christian gods, but I doubt she’s an atheist, since spells call on the power of several pagan gods, like Hecate. Besides, there’s no Hell either, just hell dimensions. And they stated explicitly several times that the Judeo-Christian Genesis myth is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/75 "2004-12-19T01:37:53Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Who’s Blish? I remembered her as kneeling when Kirk walks in, and I thought they used the word “chapel”, but I’m probably just remembering it wrong. > > I still don’t think they were atheists, though. In another episode, Kirk says that their crew represents “many beliefs”. Again, I can’t remember which episode; perhaps you know. Whoops. Blish (who wrote up the episodes as stories) did say chapel. But again Kirk did the service. I don’t think there is anything to say that all crew members were atheists, but I think Kirk and certainly Spock were. When Kirk says “what does God need with a starship” he is rejecting the claim on that evidence, not because he was saying that there is another exclusive god. And I still don’t remember seeing any religious symbols in the “chapel.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/76 "2004-12-19T01:42:37Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > James Blish. Wrote novelizations of the ST: TOS episodes and sometimes included details that were not part of the episodes as aired 9IIRC he sometimes worked off non-finalized scripts). One I remember in particular was from his writing up “Who Mourns for Adonais?” when it’s revealed that the woman from the landing party is pregnant by Apollo. Not in the ep as airde; would’ve made it much more interesting though. I the first volumes he changed stuff around, and even introduced some of his universe in passing - in Tomorrow is Yesterday, he mentions the Vega Tyranny from the Cities in Flight books. In later ones, either because the fans objected, he was getting old, or he discovered the books sold no matter how much work he put into them, he just went through the motions. ---
**Author:** ![plankter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ba0ec/32.png) [@plankter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plankter)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/77 "2004-12-19T12:46:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Have I caught C.S.I.'s Grisolm making a few atheist-type scientific realist remarks? I’ve never taped the show, so that sort of thing may have flown by me, but I’m pretty sure he’s come across that way up to now (we’re on season 2 or 3, I think - just had episode with dead supermodel - with the rat, you know?) The one with the rat is “The Hunger Artist”. Great eppy. Grissom may be a ‘scientific realist’ but he’s also the lead character on an American network show, so the viewer is assured that he’s not one of them godless eggheads. In Season One he defends insects on a human corpse by saying they’re “just doing what God intended”. Season Two’s “Alter Boys” reveals Grissom as a former Catholic who’s leery of organized religion, but he specifically tells the priest, “I believe in God”. That’s where they left it untill Season Five. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/78 "2004-12-19T18:57:26Z")
Surprisingly, Joey Tribiani on Friends. In the season one episode where Ross & Monica’s grandmother dies, the friends are discussing life after death. Joey says he doesn’t “believe any of that. When you’re gone you’re gone. That’s it. Worm food.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/79 "2004-12-19T19:35:10Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > Yeah but I’d put that in the same catagory as Mike and Edith. (Not that he was lying to him, more that…I know you’ll interpet this as reflecting the prescence of god so I’ll tell you about it to help you out.) Anyway in another scene with him he tells him what a great priest he is and Mulcahy “You crazy agnostic, you”. I believe in the same episode, Mulcahy prays for a soldier undergoing surgery who is failing. Mulcahy prays, and the soldier immediately stabliizes, and Pierce asks Mulcahy, “Still feel like you aren’t doing any good?” I think Pierce also qutoes some French doctor > [@](#): > > I bandaged him, God healed him. Maybe Pierce wavered in his agnosticism. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416/80 "2004-12-20T02:47:34Z")
Robbie Coltrane’s character of Fitz in the British series **Cracker** definitely was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-atheist-characters-on-tv/280416.md?page=5)