# Openly mocking religious beliefs - When is it OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808 "2007-03-13T22:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Andrew\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/da6949/32.png) [@Andrew\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andrew_Bird)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/1 "2007-03-13T22:36:10Z")
When is it OK to openly mock religious beliefs. I just saw the movie 300 and it is very open about mocking the religious beliefs of the Persians and the belief that Xerxes is a God. There is probably not much risk in this as I don’t know of anybody that still believes that Xerxes was a God. However, there are some religious beleifs that seem to be OK with most people to make fun of. Scientology is an obvious example. This mostly justified on the fact that Scientology is a obvious fraud started by L. Ron Hubbard. But Mormonism (an obvious fraud started by Joseph Smith, Jr.) is treated completely differently. Nobody is mocking Mitt Romney (who is running for president) for holding beliefs that have been shown to complete bullshit by archaeology, genetics, and linguistics. However, it Romney was a Scientologist or believed that Xerxes was a god, he would most likely be openly mocked in public. And it is of course beyond the pale to mock someone for believing that God became a man was killed and rose from the dead. So why are some irrational beleifs OK to mock while others are not? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/2 "2007-03-13T22:43:28Z")
Is it really that important for you to mock people’s religious beliefs that you need an answer to this question? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/3 "2007-03-13T22:56:40Z")
It’s generally not considered polite to mock religious beliefs at all. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/da6949/32.png) [@Andrew\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andrew_Bird)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/4 "2007-03-13T23:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] It’s generally not considered polite to mock religious beliefs at all. [/QUOTE] Polite or not, there was no response at all to the mocking of the idea of Xerxes being a God. There is also a clear double standard. Look at Scientology and Mormonism. Both are obvious frauds, but only one regularly gets called on it. Why? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/5 "2007-03-13T23:25:09Z")
It’s never **polite,** but it’s always **OK.** Some considerations are more important than courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/6 "2007-03-13T23:29:08Z")
I think Scientology gets called on it because it is largely seen as a revenue-generating, cult-like, pyramid-scheme fronting as a “religion”. Though there are plenty of greedy, fanatical, and unethical representatives of other religions, most are still seen as purveyors of a particular moral viewpoint and not simply charlatans “dressing” the Emperor. This would include Mormonism–regardless of how invested you are in the “fraud” allegation, the origin of the religion and the lifestyle its followers continue to follow are largely seen as separate, while the two are more indelibly linked with Hubbard’s creation. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/7 "2007-03-13T23:31:36Z")
Plus, most Mormons I’ve met (and I’ve met plenty, including my immediate boss and my assistant coach) are pretty nice people overall, while every single Scientologist I have met has been an unmitigated asshole. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/8 "2007-03-13T23:32:08Z")
Come to think of it, IRL the Great King of the Persians was not considered divine. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/9 "2007-03-13T23:46:38Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] Polite or not, there was no response at all to the mocking of the idea of Xerxes being a God. [/quote] The movie also featured a society that murdered infants that didn’t meet their standard of physical perfection, flogged their young children so they wouldn’t display any pain or fear, and sent them out alone in a blizzard to hunt giant wolves with a pointed stick. I don’t think you can take everything that movie portrayed as gospel advice. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/10 "2007-03-13T23:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] Polite or not, there was no response at all to the mocking of the idea of Xerxes being a God. There is also a clear double standard. Look at Scientology and Mormonism. Both are obvious frauds, but only one regularly gets called on it. Why? [/QUOTE] Likely, because there aren’t many Xerxes worshipers around to get offended. For the same reason, since there tend to be more Mormons than Scientologists around, you’re more likely to offend someone when mocking them. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/11 "2007-03-14T00:02:15Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] When is it OK to openly mock religious beliefs. [/QUOTE] Okay with whom? Are you worried about getting zapped with a lightning bolt? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/12 "2007-03-14T00:05:34Z")
On an internet message board without your real nam - go ahead and mock. At the Church on Easter, I would not recommend it. Mocking a religion is perfectly legal, however it can carry some risks as mocking ever does. Quoth Henry V: > [@](#): > > And tell the pleasant prince this mock of his > Hath turn’d his balls to gun-stones; and his soul > Shall stand sore charged for the wasteful vengeance > That shall fly with them: for many a thousand widows > Shall this his mock mock out of their dear husbands; > Mock mothers from their sons, mock castles down; > And some are yet ungotten and unborn > That shall have cause to curse the Dauphin’s scorn. You can mock Scientology, but Chef won’t be a character any more and Tom won’t invite you to his movies. If you mock the Mormons, you will have to deal with Governor and potentially President Romney (long shot, but we must evaluate our risks). There are also a LOT of “fallen” Mormons out there who won’t tell you, but will carry the grudge. If you mock the Catholics you have to deal with the Pope. In some areas they are pretty powerful. If you mock the larger Protestant sects they too carry a far amount of weight. Mocking the fundies is typically safe in polite society, but once again the closet Christians will give you a mental demerit. Need we discuss the risk of mocking the Muslims? A few Danes can fill you in on that one. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/13 "2007-03-14T00:16:25Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] I just saw the movie 300 and it is very open about mocking the religious beliefs of the Persians and the belief that Xerxes is a God. There [/QUOTE] I haven’t seen the movie. Does the movie itself mock these beliefs, or is it a portrayal of the way the Spartans felt about these beliefs? If it’s the latter, that seems to me to be a reasonable historical portrayal of the way the Spartans probably felt about the Persians. That, in and of itself, is not mocking Persian beliefs. But, otherwise, I don’t think it’s a great idea to mock other people’s religious beliefs. You can always make fact based arguments against a specific practice, if you so desire. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/14 "2007-03-14T00:22:23Z")
In my humble opinion, it’s _never_ okay to mock someone’s religious beliefs. It’s okay to vehemently disagree, or even show outrage, if what they DO is harmful (IE: the Holocaust), and furthermore it’s okay to try and enact legislation to prevent that sort of stuff from proceeding. However, according to all the definitions I found on [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), I feel mocking to be more of an attack on the person and a reflection of the person putting it forth, which again is never acceptable to me. Everyone deserves even the very basics humanity. I don’t see how that’s any different when applied to religion. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/15 "2007-03-14T00:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] Nobody is mocking Mitt Romney… [/QUOTE] No? I’ve been seeing quite a bit of mocking in the press and by people in general. Many newspapers have run articles wondering if a Mormon can be elected, since so many people think Mormons are crazy. (Personally, I doubt it very much.) One well-known example: [Bill Maher on Mormons](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqNbZKIQUs) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/16 "2007-03-14T00:51:23Z")
[QUOTE=faithfool] Everyone deserves even the very basics humanity. I don’t see how that’s any different when applied to religion. [/QUOTE] That means you don’t shoot people or set them on fire or rob people because of their religion ( leave that to the religious people to do to each other ); it doesn’t mean you have to be polite about stupid beliefs. As for me, I obviously have no moral problems with mocking religious beliefs. I advise against doing so in person, as religious people are by definition irrational, generally amoral and often violent. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/17 "2007-03-14T01:07:50Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] That means you don’t shoot people or set them on fire or rob people because of their religion ( leave that to the religious people to do to each other ); it doesn’t mean you have to be polite about stupid beliefs. [/QUOTE] Would you say the same about the culture of an ethnic group? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/18 "2007-03-14T01:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=athelas] Would you say the same about the culture of an ethnic group? [/QUOTE] An “ethnic group” doesn’t qualify, since humans have little genetic variation; if Neanderthals were still around it might be different. Not that I’d mock _them_, come to think of it; they couldn’t help being less intelligent, and they could have rather casually dismembered me. As for culture, of _course_ I mock stupid or evil cultural beliefs. Am I supposed to pretend respect for homophobia or wife beating because it’s part of someone’s culture ? Am I supposed to repect someone’s belief that the world is flat ? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/19 "2007-03-14T01:22:20Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] That means you don’t shoot people or set them on fire or rob people because of their religion ( leave that to the religious people to do to each other ); it doesn’t mean you have to be polite about stupid beliefs. As for me, I obviously have no moral problems with mocking religious beliefs. I advise against doing so in person, as religious people are by definition irrational, generally amoral and often violent. [/QUOTE] Well Mr. **Trihs** , I suppose that we’ll have to agree to disagree, huh? Of course, considering our respective stances, I suppose that’s no surprise. But, as I mentioned above, I disapprove of the things you specifically mention here, like shooting or robbing people and certainly setting them on fire, but I think you can get across your feelings by doing what I listed: disagree, be outraged, and/or legislation. I have no desire to, what would be for _me_, putting myself anywhere near their level. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/20 "2007-03-14T02:34:18Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] I advise against doing so in person, as religious people are by definition irrational, generally amoral and often violent. [/QUOTE] What a shockingly stupid statement. So Albert Einstein, Bill Clinton, Isaac Newton, Jimmy Carter, and Sammy Davis, Jr. are all irrational, most likely amoral, and more than likely violent? I think you need some perspective. Marc [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808.md?page=2)