# Openly mocking religious beliefs - When is it OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808 "2007-03-13T22:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/21 "2007-03-14T02:54:08Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Am I supposed to pretend respect for homophobia or wife beating because it’s part of someone’s culture ? Am I supposed to repect someone’s belief that the world is flat ? [/QUOTE] Der Trihs brings up a valid point. Why should I respect a culture that drops walls on homosexuals or forces women to cover their features? Does Cultural Relativsm reign here? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/22 "2007-03-14T02:56:38Z")
[Quote=BrainGlutton] It’s never polite, but it’s always OK. Some considerations are more important than courtesy. [/Quote] I agree. This is my ranking of the mockableness of religions: 1 Fred Phelps 2 Scientologists 3 Jehovah’s witnesses 4 Christian Scientists 5 Answers in Genesis 6 Mormons 7 New Age Hippies I mock many more religions, but I try to judge my audience beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/23 "2007-03-14T03:16:48Z")
No religion - nor any other aspect of human activity - should be immune from mockery. Especially when deserved but also when not, only observing the bounds of civility - obviously you don’t make choirboy jokes at a priest’s funeral. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/24 "2007-03-14T03:59:50Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] When is it OK to openly mock religious beliefs. [/QUOTE] I put religion right next to racism. Not ok to outlaw, but always ok to mock. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/25 "2007-03-14T04:10:05Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] No religion - nor any other aspect of human activity - should be immune from mockery. Especially when deserved but also when not, only observing the bounds of civility - obviously you don’t make choirboy jokes at a priest’s funeral. [/QUOTE] And that goes to the whole discussion. Some people _would_ make ill-conceived, rude statements, just to get a rise. Not most people, just some. Civility. What a quaint concept for some. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/26 "2007-03-14T04:29:43Z")
I guess I have to admit it. Fred Phelps (Westboro Baptist Church) is really one of the only religions I’d mock to their face. Any other religion, I can mock behind their backs. I always feel like I should go and try to convince those young fresh faced Scientologists about the folly of their beliefs. They’re out there proselytizing anyhow, so I wouldn’t be any more uncivil than they are. One of these days, I’m going to convert a Jehovah’s Witness over to the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/da6949/32.png) [@Andrew\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andrew_Bird)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/27 "2007-03-14T04:31:51Z")
I am not really talking about going to a person and mocking their beliefs to their face. I am talking about mocking beliefs in public debate. When Kevin Smith mocked certain Catholic beliefs in Dogma it was a huge story. This was not the case with Scientology and South Park until Hayes (sp?) left. It seems like there are certain beliefs people are free to mock and there will not be a huge deal made about it while other beliefs are open to mocking. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/28 "2007-03-14T04:47:56Z")
The way I believe still applies to debate, in my humble opinion. Even on here, there are people behind the screen names (and I always give the benefit of the doubt, there’s never anything lost for me personally – because I’d feel that was the right thing to do no matter what – even if that ‘persona’ proves to be false) and feelings to consider. Again, as I said, you can have all sorts of other opinions expressed without _mocking_ that person’s religion. Questioning might help too, within the process of being respectful. As to the Phreds and Chicks of the world, that’s where I allow pissed-offedness to come in. That’s much more effective for me anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/29 "2007-03-14T14:03:11Z")
To me the acid test not what the religion and its adherants believe, but how they behave. If Scientologists insist on using Mafia-like tactics to spread their idiotic stupid Xenu crap, then I have no problem mocking their idiotic stupid Xenu crap. It’s pretty much open season on Phred all the time. And creationists who deliberately distort science so that they can infiltrate schools? Fuck them and their Jesus Horse idiocy. On the other hand, if grandma wants to believe that going to church will get her into heaven, more power to her. ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/30 "2007-03-14T14:38:00Z")
It’s OK by the same standards that are used when defining a religion as a cult. Numbers. Religious tolerance is a popularity contest. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/31 "2007-03-14T15:19:50Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Am I supposed to pretend respect for homophobia or wife beating because it’s part of someone’s culture ? Am I supposed to repect someone’s belief that the world is flat ? [/QUOTE] Yes, if that’s what their god requires of them. Which is utterly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/32 "2007-03-14T16:24:31Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Am I supposed to pretend respect for homophobia or wife beating because it’s part of someone’s culture ? Am I supposed to repect someone’s belief that the world is flat ? [/QUOTE] No, of course not, and it’s certainly ok, and probably even good, to argue against beliefs that you think are immoral, impractical, or wrong, even if those beliefs are religious or cultural or whatever. But you can argue against a belief without mocking the belief or the person who holds the belief. It’s possible to disagree with someone without trying to hurt them. Ultimately, what it comes down to, in my opinion at least, is that you need to recognize and respect the other person’s humanity, even if you think he’s wrong or evil. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/33 "2007-03-14T16:47:03Z")
Mockery of religion doesn’t accomplish a whole lot. It puts believers on the defensive, without doing much for those who aren’t believers in the religion(s) being mocked. I don’t get a lot of pleasure out of mean-spiritedness, even if I happen to agree. On the other hand, I find satire of religion to be quite entertaining. I particularly like someone who has an irreverant outlook (as I do), but isn’t all pissed off about it (or is pissed off, but keeps it somewhat hidden). As a case in point, I just read Terry Pratchett’s _Small Gods_. Light, fluffy, predictable satire, but refreshing nonetheless. A better example, would be _Cat’s Cradle_. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/34 "2007-03-14T16:53:45Z")
Mocking, making fun of, and downright denigrating religions is best done behind closed doors, when surrounded by close friends and relatives who believe or don’t believe exactly as you believe or don’t believe. I’m not saying it’s right, just that it’s safest. At least that’s where I do my mocking. At home, quietly, so as not to offend anyone or cause them to think twice about what they believe. Or don’t believe. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/35 "2007-03-14T17:02:00Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] As for me, I obviously have no moral problems with mocking religious beliefs. I advise against doing so in person, as religious people are by definition irrational, generally amoral and often violent. [/QUOTE] Um, excuse me, good sir, but my mother was deeply religious. And up until about an hour before her death last week, she was quite rational, rigidly moral, and as pacifist as they come. Up to now, I’ve admired and respected your rational, logical and well-informed take on religion. Up to now. ---
**Author:** ![WorkInProgress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@WorkInProgress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WorkInProgress)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/36 "2007-03-14T17:20:58Z")
If your morality (sense of right vs wrong) allows for mockery, go forth and conquer. Of course, be prepared for the back lash. Many religions do not turn the other cheek. I for one, have a moral code that is dictated by the Bible, specifically the New Testament. This prevents me from mocking others but allows righteous indignation for those who mock God. A bit of a hi-jack, but if it is OK to mock religion, why not homosexuals or people with glasses or people who celebrate Pi day. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/37 "2007-03-14T17:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] A bit of a hi-jack, but if it is OK to mock religion, why not homosexuals or people with glasses or people who celebrate Pi day. [/QUOTE] For homosexuals, people with glasses or people who celebrate Pi day, what’s there to mock? Being attracted to the same sex, finding ways to improve your vision, and having another reason to celebrate hardly qualifies anyone for mockery. Might as well ask, is it okay to mock right-handedness. It’s okay but what’s there to mock? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/38 "2007-03-14T18:06:49Z")
Near as I can figure, **Andrew Bird** , the OP is drawing the definition of what’s OK to do from what most people do. People laugh at Scientology, but not so much at Mormonism. Christianity has a majority in the US, so even non-Christians are probably familiar with that faith. Mormonism is a rather odd brand of Christianity, so it’s more or less like home to other Christians.“Mormonism is like Methodism, except for…” Scientology shares no basis with any other religion I know of. No Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or Taoist can walk into a Church of Scientology and see anything familiar. “Scientology is like Lutheranism, except for _everything_. It’s not like Lutheranism at all.” So, this Scientologist walks into a bar… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/39 "2007-03-14T18:07:59Z")
[QUOTE=WorkInProgress] I for one, have a moral code that is dictated by the Bible, specifically the New Testament. This prevents me from mocking others but allows righteous indignation for those who mock God. [/QUOTE] Mocking people is rude, but I am confused by saying the bible prohibits mocking others: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808/40 "2007-03-14T18:16:15Z")
[QUOTE=Andrew Bird] I am talking about mocking beliefs in public debate. When Kevin Smith mocked certain Catholic beliefs in Dogma it was a huge story. [/QUOTE] Which beliefs did Kevin Smith mock, exactly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/openly-mocking-religious-beliefs-when-is-it-ok/395808.md?page=3)