# Opera has so much gorgeous music. But the singers sound like shit. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182 "2016-03-07T05:23:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/81 "2016-03-09T16:01:30Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > That’s wrong. She should know better. Singers aren’t supposed to draw consonants out, just vowels. That depends on the language. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/82 "2016-03-09T16:05:39Z")
Oh, really? In WHAT language does a singer draw out consonants? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/83 "2016-03-09T16:05:45Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Patricia Kraus has never been, nor (as far as I know) ever marketed herself as an opera singer. She’s a soul/jazz/blues singer. There is nothing operatic about her singing. If you think [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TlANRhyO38) sounds operatic, I humbly suggest you don’t know what “operatic” sounds like. There is a lot of something I don’t know how to define, vibrato is probably wrong thre. [Here is KoKo Taylor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpvm4GbnFZQ). I wish she had trained and sung Fricka. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/84 "2016-03-09T16:27:43Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > That depends on the language. Not really. There are languages that may have more prominent consonants, but none where they’re really drawn out. Drawn out consonants are not clear. Crisp, clean consonants are clear. Certainly on a long note, which is presumably what dougie is talking about, you sing the vowel, not the consonant. (With the obvious exception of humming.) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/85 "2016-03-09T16:47:03Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Not really. There are languages that may have more prominent consonants, but none where they’re really drawn out. Drawn out consonants are not clear. Crisp, clean consonants are clear. Certainly on a long note, which is presumably what dougie is talking about, you sing the vowel, not the consonant. (With the obvious exception of humming.) Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/86 "2016-03-09T17:47:39Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There is a lot of something I don’t know how to define, vibrato is probably wrong thre. [Here is KoKo Taylor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpvm4GbnFZQ). I wish she had trained and sung Fricka. :dubious: 😕 I think KoKo Taylor was a great blues singer, but I don’t get **any** sense from her singing that her voice would have been suited to an operatic mezzosoprano role like Fricka. Nor do I think there’s anything in that role that would give scope to a KoKo Taylor-like sound. It’s a question of tessitura and range, for one thing. Being a great blues contralto doesn’t by any means give you the capacity to sing as an operatic mezzosoprano. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/87 "2016-03-09T18:21:08Z")
In the word “singer”, the R would be sounded more “uh” or “ah” anyway, delaying the consonant to the very end, so that the word is enunciated approximately as “siiiiiiiinguuuuuhr”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/88 "2016-03-09T18:24:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 I think KoKo Taylor was a great blues singer, but I don’t get **any** sense from her singing that her voice would have been suited to an operatic mezzosoprano role like Fricka. I believe that she would have the bitching, whining and complaining down pat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/89 "2016-03-09T19:05:40Z")
Fricka’s husband has 11 illegitimate children by two different woman. I think she’s got a right to be mildly peeved. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/90 "2016-03-09T19:21:03Z")
Hey, you think the position of Head God is easy? It’s not all traveling around fathering Rhinemaidens, Valkyries, Heroes and their Main Squeezes, you know! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/91 "2016-03-09T19:23:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Hey, you think the position of Head God is easy? It’s not all traveling around fathering Rhinemaidens, Valkyries, Heroes and their Main Squeezes, you know! > :dubious: Why not? Lesser gods should be doing the grunt work. I mean, what’s the point of being Head God unless you get all the hottest chicks. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/92 "2016-03-09T19:24:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Hey, you think the position of Head God is easy? It’s not all traveling around fathering Rhinemaidens, Valkyries, Heroes and their Main Squeezes, you know! > :dubious: Yeah, sometimes you have to trade your sister-in-law for a castle. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/93 "2016-03-09T19:35:56Z")
The commute to Niebelehim is a bitch. Do you know how expensive optical insurance was in those days? Don’t even get me started on negotiating with the Giants Union! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/94 "2016-03-09T23:13:08Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Oh, really? In WHAT language does a singer draw out consonants? I’ve heard singers in Russian, Czech or Hungarian draw out some consonants for emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![Myglaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Myglaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myglaren)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/95 "2016-03-09T23:33:10Z")
I couldn’t claim to be an opera fan although there are one or two that I like, mainly for the preludes and arias. There are certainly some singers who can be rather stressful and others who are not. My favourite among the latter group is Elina Garanca. A very powerful but at the same time smooth and creamy voice. Here with her pal Anna Netrebko in [Barcarolle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u0M4CMq7uI) and [Habanera](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFUKsv1epk) My top-of-the-lister is not an opera singer although many claim she is, is Jackie Evancho, a singer with unprecedented talents. Some examples of her arias - and these are in the main cellphone recordings from he concerts so not the pinnacle of audio quality but her voice shines through nevertheless. [Ombra Mai Fu](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-RNXom8UY) [A very stripped-down version of the same](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU5wwmlsgYs) [O Mio Babbino Caro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9KZfCULaCw) Considered by many to be one of her finest performances, the third “Vincero” is staggering -[Nessun Dorma](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5F9VHJQ1AY). [And a much more recent version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUoLqyKLXL4). [Con Te Partiro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StR98Eq4Tfk) with Sumi Jo in St. Petersburg - she recently dueted with Andreea Bocelli in [Taiwan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAR4yikxvTY) with this song. A recent one, [Think Of Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWm3L9I_5M) Not bad considering she is at the time of writing still not quite 16. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/96 "2016-03-10T00:45:19Z")
There is nothing unprecedented, or even particularly profound about Jackie Evancho’s talents. It is certainly nothing close to operatic. It’s a small, terribly constrained voice with utterly inefficient use of breath and so much extraneous tension it makes me cringe. A thirteen-year-old with jaw wobble is simply horrifying. Without amplification that voice would be completely inaudible. She also clearly has no idea what she’s singing about. She sings Nessun Dorma like it’s a lullaby, which completely misses the point of that aria. If she or any of the people around her understood what that aria was actually about, they would be properly horrified at the idea of a pre-teen girl singing it. (Yes, I know she’s young. But that’s the point; her technique, and indeed her very physiology, are not prepared for adult opera. When she sings things that are more age appropriate, I have far less to complain about. Her success is largely a function of modern amplification and a youth - obsessed public that doesn’t know what it’s listening for.) I’m sure she’ll have a wonderful and successful career singing popera-light, but opera it ain’t. (And I’ll follow that all up by pointing out that I have no problem with you enjoying Jackie Evancho. But the subject is one of considerable consternation and passion within the classical singing world, and it’s hard let it pass without comment.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/97 "2016-03-10T01:46:20Z")
Are we jealous? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/98 "2016-03-10T02:14:17Z")
Yes, obviously that’s the only possible reason I could have or express an opinion of someone. An opinion that is pretty widely shared within the industry, at that. Good job. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/99 "2016-03-10T02:29:20Z")
Thanks. I thought that you would say that I obviously knew nothing of opera, and was prepared to admit it, save that I loved Wagner. You were rather over the top, there. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182/100 "2016-03-10T02:51:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Thanks. > You were rather over the top, there. No, there are very good reasons for art song enthusiasts to complain mightily about young teens being exploited as operatic “prodigies” at the cost of their proper development and training in healthy technique. I think Evancho has a very pretty high range and a nice soprano sound (in addition to being a super-pretty blonde girl who would really sell the visual of a part like Mimi or Marguerite), and I hope she gets better coaching/teaching to support her talent for a serious opera career (or just continues as a “popera” celebrity act, whichever she prefers). But yes, her performances make it clear that she has serious technical issues (insufficient support, forcing the chest voice, etc.), and singing challenging music with technique problems like that is _physically dangerous_. Vocal nodules waiting to happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-has-so-much-gorgeous-music-but-the-singers-sound-like-shit/748182.md?page=6)