I obtained DVDs of the NY Met Ring, in realistic costume. Brunhilde was a tiny singer, like my little sister dressed up as a Valkyrie for Halloween. :dubious:
Behrens was not a small woman. There were just a lot of very tall people on stage with her (James Morris is 6’5". Behrens was about half a head shorter.)
Wynton Marsalis won Grammys in both categories two years in a row but he is an exception.
No, but she didn’t try. Lots of opera singers try to perform different genres but don’t adapt to the style.
I’m only one person, but I didn’t know that. I have heard it performed dozens of times but always instrumental. So it is no surprise to me that the general public might be unaware that it’s a choral piece.
Again, I don’t doubt that there are people, even many people, who aren’t aware. I just think “most” is an extravagant claim. It’s a side issue anyway. I’m still mystified as to the relevance.
Most of Beethoven’s Ninth is only instrumental. There’s only one… is movement the right word? that has the singing.
True (yes, “movement” is the word), but that movement is the only one that has the Ode to Joy theme. I can well believe that most people are not aware of the first three movements.
A fair amount of vocal/choral/opera music has crept onto my Ipod in recent years, mostly because I downloaded period/composer collections.
I can entirely do without Wagner opera (the vocal parts; the overtures are fine) and the murky stuff the Italians churned out in the 19th century. On the other hand, in limited doses I like “light” opera written by Mozart, Rossini and similar composers (again, overtures mainly, though I went to a complete performance of one of Mozart’s most popular works (The Marriage of Figaro?) and enjoyed it.
Baroque opera is also tolerable on brief exposure. What I can’t stand is Baroque-era vocal music in which the female singer is emoting through her nose. I picture Julia Child standing there, turning out proper melodies. :smack:
Because he’s referring to bel canto style, and doesn’t know the word for it. And, likely the most of his audience wouldn’t know either. For a huge portion of the populace, all bel canto singing is considered operatic singing. Heck, I didn’t even know the word until I went to college for music.
I can’t begrudge him, either. I knew what he meant. Is there anyone who actually thinks that Beethoven’s Ninth was written for an opera?
As long as we’re on this hijack: I did not know this before, but learned it from looking up “Ode To Joy” after this thread piqued my curiosity: “Beethoven’s tune (but not Schiller’s words) was adopted as the Anthem of Europe by the Council of Europe in 1972, and subsequently the European Union.” This could help to explain why so many people have heard instrumental-only versions.
Getting back to the main topic: I do with the OP would come back and elaborate. I’m curious as to exactly what he’s compaining about.
See, I don’t agree with that. I’m not saying it’s necessarily easy if you aren’t used to it, but I think you can understand the lyrics in good opera singing. Well, except by sopranos when they sing so high that it’s physically impossible to distinguish their vowels cleanly.
I’m not referring to the singing style, I’m referring to the word “lyrics”. Beethoven’s ninth has lyrics. “Operatic” doesn’t add anything.
Even that’s nitpickable: the words were taken from a poem that was written well before Beethoven had anything to do with them.
Yes it does. It refers to a style, though I apparently chose the wrong word.
The fact that the fourth movement of Beethoven’s Ninth has lyrics is not nitpickable. :dubious:
The style refers to the singing, not the lyrics. This is what I’m saying.
The jocund Gioachino Rossini once said: “How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers.”
But more better: “One can’t judge Wagner’s opera Lohengrin after a first hearing, and I certainly don’t intend to hear it a second time.”
What on earth does the provenance of the text have to do with whether or not there are lyrics in Beethoven’s ninth?
They weren’t originally written as lyrics (i.e. they weren’t meant to be sung). That might be relevant if we’re talking about what kind or “style” of lyrics (“operatic” or whatever) they are.
That more or less describes the entire catalog of western art song. If we’re going to insist that Schubert’s entire song collection doesn’t have any lyrics, I think we’ve just weirded language out of existence.
Speaking of lyrics . . .
One of my favorite genres is operettas, specifically those of Lehar and Kalman. These are usually sung in German or Hungarian, neither of which I speak. I HATE English translations – the balance between consonants and vowels is way off, and is a total distraction. I’m usually only vaguely aware of the plot, so I usually have no idea what’s being sung. *But it doesn’t matter. *I listen to the singing, but it’s almost as if the voices are instruments, making beautiful sounds without any linguistic meaning. There have even been times when, upon learning about a particular operetta’s plot, my enjoyment actually diminished.
One of the benefits of not understanding the language is that I can edit out the spoken dialog, without losing any of the story.