# Opera singer fired for being "too fat." O.K. or unlawful discrimination? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946 "2004-03-12T19:04:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946/41 "2004-03-14T03:30:53Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > I don’t understand how anyone can seriously contend that appearance has _nothing_ to do with casting. As already pointed out, this would lead to absurdities like having Pavarotti play Little Orphan Annie. Perhaps we should go back to the days when women’s roles were played by castrati in drag.:rolleyes: It is my understanding that many of the roles played by castrati in the past were _written_ for castrati. I doubt the role of Ariadne was specifically written for skinny sopranos, so we’d be exercising more artistic integrity by bringing back the castrati then by telling Voight she’s too fat to play a romantic heroine. Of course, we’d also be committing a grotesque human rights violation, but if we accept that it’s okay to be a little loose with casting in certain circumstances I don’t see the problem with drawing the line somewhere that lets Voight play a character that some people might prefer to imagine as thin. And don’t knock drag in the opera, it’s got a long and glorious tradition. In some shows it’s almost essential. A good friend of mine is an aspiring opera singer, still in training. She is personally interested in “boy soprano” roles, many of which were in fact written with adult female performers in mind rather than real adolescent boys or castrati. She does a lovely Cherubino, and I’d hate to think that she’d be denied the chance to play the role professionally just because she’s not actually a 14-year-old boy. If a particular director were committed to having a 14-year-old boy from the outset, or found a 14-year-old boy who could sing rings around my friend, that would be one thing. But if she got cast as Cherubino and the director later decided that she had to go because her breasts were just too big for the boy’s costume he had picked out, I’d cry “unfair!” And that seems to be essentially what happened to Voight here. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946/42 "2004-03-14T05:22:50Z")
[quote] **blowero** : How anybody could get from that to suggesting that I only think white people should get starring roles is beyond me. It’s too bad we can’t have a rational discussion without people flinging false charges of racism. I have know doubt that it is beyond you. Read carefully and you will see that no one said that you think that only white people should get starring roles. No one said that you are racist. _Your accusations are false._ But if your appearance must match what would normally be called for in the story, then **logically** , Blacks and Asians would be left out of _most_ operatic roles because they are written about white people. Discrimination against white singers is also possible under your standards (as I understand them). For example, _Aida_ is set in Egypt. Should only dark-skinned singers have roles in it? Do not sit in judgment on the motives of others unless you have access to their unspoken thoughts. It is futile. To claim that someone is “spoiling for a fight” in a thread that asks for _opinions_ is silly. Your opinion is appropriate for posting as is Aldebaran’s and mine and everyone else’s. Speaking for myself, I am spoiling for an intelligent discussion. Opera _is_ different because fans have always been accustomed to suspending disbelief (if they have any) because the focus is almost totally on _sound_. We don’t want to hear just “a good singer.” We are more interested in hearing the _best_ rather than seeing the best looking. We are quite used to large operatic singers. If they are smaller, that’s fine too – if they can thrill us with their voices. But there is a very good reason for the expression “The opera ain’t over 'til the fat lady sings.” “Fat ladies” are quite common in opera. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946/43 "2004-03-14T05:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > “Unfortunately, sopranos who sing like birds eat like horses, and vice versa.” – Thomas Beecham, well-known English orchestra conductor and impresario Damn. I hate having to add words because a quote is concise – but too short for posting… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946/44 "2004-03-14T06:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I have know doubt that it is beyond you. Read carefully and you will see that no one said that you think that only white people should get starring roles. No one said that you are racist. Your accusations are false. What the fuck are you talking about? **Aldebaran** said exactly that! I quote: “But I see that you want to bann all coloured, Chinese, Korean, whatever non-white singers from the stage since most of the roles were created/thought for “whites?”” You obviously read this post, you and he used the same example from Aida! > [@](#): > > But if your appearance must match what would normally be called for in the story, then logically, Blacks and Asians would be left out of most operatic roles because they are written about white people. To respond in kind, I’m going to ask you to point to where **blowero** said anything resembling that. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2004, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946/45 "2004-03-14T08:43:52Z")
Zoe, what you have written is utter nonsense. I have said nothing even _remotely_ close to your characterization. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opera-singer-fired-for-being-too-fat-o-k-or-unlawful-discrimination/233946.md?page=2)