# Operation Pillar of Cloud -- Gaza Under Siege **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137 "2012-11-15T22:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/241 "2012-11-19T17:01:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Of course, that’s exactly what Hamas WANTS to happen, as it will keep the cycle of violence going and keep the volunteers for that explosive underwear or rocket lighters rolling in. To my way of thinking, and this is a harsh thing to say: if that’s what Hamas wants, why on earth is Israel giving it to them? Personally, in Israel’s shoes, I’d be trying a combination of wet covert tactics using the Mossad or special forces to surgically eliminate rocket launch sites without civilian casualties, combined with more aggressive deployment of Iron Dome which by all accounts is performing exceptionally well in the border communities under threat. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/242 "2012-11-19T17:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zeriel] To my way of thinking, and this is a harsh thing to say: if that’s what Hamas wants, why on earth is Israel giving it to them? [/QUOTE] Same reason us Americans got our collective cranks stuck in the golf shoes wrt Iraq and Afghanistan…because we have an elected government that is expect to Do Something™ when we are attacked. > [@](#): > > Personally, in Israel’s shoes, I’d be trying a combination of wet covert tactics using the Mossad or special forces to surgically eliminate rocket launch sites without civilian casualties, combined with more aggressive deployment of Iron Dome which by all accounts is performing exceptionally well in the border communities under threat. Israel is doing all of that…in fact, that’s what sparked the recent dust up. Israel whacked a bunch of Hamas big wigs with a surgical strike (which was in retaliation to an earlier rocket attack that Israel didn’t invade over, which was sparked by…etc…etc…), which prompted the current attacks. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I were in Israels shoes, even assuming I was a God Emperor of Israel and my will was law and all that. It doesn’t seem to matter what Israel does, to be honest. If they do surgical strikes they get retaliation. If they do nothing then they are attacked. If they retaliate then they get more retaliation. Hamas is pretty obviously (well, to everyone but Red and a few other posters in this thread) doing all this deliberately, to prompt Israel into attacking and causing causalities to their own population to keep the cycle of violence going. When things get hot, look for Hamas to start making noises about a cease fire (which they will get), and then things will calm down…until the next time. Rinse and repeat until…well, gods know. I guess until there isn’t an Israel there anymore. I can’t see any other outcome. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/243 "2012-11-19T17:27:42Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Really? And the blockade will magically end and Israeli colonization will stop? Normally I would expect some “thrashing” when your life is being choked out of you. You are conflating multiple things here. Israel isn’t colonizing Gaza…they forcibly moved their citizens OUT of Gaza and unilaterally turned it over to the PA…who then elected Hamas for the PA in Gaza. THAT is what caused the blockade. Funny that Israel would feel nervous about Hamas being in control of this territory, isn’t it? And yeah…if another body was elected in Gaza (fat chance of that happening) and Hamas tossed out the blockade would end. And if the rocket attacks stopped, Israel would simply ignore Gaza, a territory they voluntarily abandoned to the Palestinians. The ‘colonization’ you are talking about is in the Occupied Territories, and is certainly controversial. As with everything, there are two sides to this, but the pro-Palestinians would, perhaps, get more traction on that subject than this one, which except to the fervent faithful is pretty cut and dried…toss rockets at civilian cities and you get retaliatory strikes. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/244 "2012-11-19T17:27:49Z")
I think it’s hilarious how Hamas lobs rockets at Israel for years and as soon as Israel retaliates Hamas demands an “end to the violence.” Then they have the gall to set conditions on it, too. The moment Hamas gets what they want, the rockets start flying into Israel again. Who’s paying for all the rockets, BTW? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/245 "2012-11-19T17:37:45Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I think it’s hilarious how Hamas lobs rockets at Israel for years and as soon as Israel retaliates Hamas demands an “end to the violence.” Then they have the gall to set conditions on it, too. > > The moment Hamas gets what they want, the rockets start flying into Israel again. Who’s paying for all the rockets, BTW? It’s been their standard modus operandi for years. An attack, a retaliation that causes a lot of highly publicized civilian Palestinian deaths, then noises about a cease fire (on their terms), then a quiet period (with possibly some Israeli surgical strikes or assassinations of Hamas big wigs) followed by fresh attacks. Rinse and repeat, especially when you’ve been out of the news for a while…just to remind everyone you are still there. As for who pays, I’d say that Hamas is paying for them…and getting the money from Iran, considering Hamas is their baby. I don’t think that these rockets are all that expensive since they aren’t very sophisticated (a lot of them are manufactured right there in Gaza, though the Israelis have found some in the West Bank too)…IIRC, a lot of the rockets fired are an old WWII Russian design, though lately they have been getting more range. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/246 "2012-11-19T17:41:40Z")
I think Hamas gets them from Iran. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/247 "2012-11-19T17:42:30Z")
Here is an article on [Hamas rockets](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hamas-qassam.htm): > [@](#): > > November 2012 witnessed a major escalation of HAMAS rocket capabilities, as the Iranian Fajr-5 artillery rocket was employed for the first time. With a range of about 75 kilometers, it had twice the range of rockets previously used by HAMAS, and brought Tel Avic and Jeruslalem within range of HAMAS attacks. At the outset of Operation Pillar of Defense, the IDF targeted a significant number of long-range rockets sites (over 40 km) owned by Hamas. This deals a significant blow to the terror organization’s underground rocket launching capabilities and munitions warehouses that are owned by Hamas and other terror organizations. The aim of targeting these sites is to cripple the terrorist organization’s rocket launching and weapons build-up capabilities. One Fajr-5 [range of about 75 km] launch site that was struck IAF aircraft was located in close proximity to a mosque and other civilian structures. > [@](#): > > The year 2008 saw a dramatic increase in the extent of HAMAS rocket fire and mortar attacks on Israel, with a total of 3,278 rockets and mortar shells landingin Israeli territory (1,750 rockets and 1,528 mortar shells). These numbers are double those of 2007 and 2006, years which marked a five-fold increase over prior years. There was also a significant increase in the number of Israeli residents exposed to rocket fire. Prior to 2008, the city of Sderot (about 20,000 residents) as well as villages around the Gaza Strip were the main targets of rocket fire and mortar shelling. In 2008, the cities of Ashkelon and Netivot came under attack by Grad artillery rockets with a range of about 20 kilometers. Later, during Operation Cast Lead, Ashdod, Beersheba, and other cities were attacked by a previously un-identified rocket with a range of 40 kilometers from the Gaza Strip. This rocket created a new reality in which nearly one million Israeli residents [about 15 percent of the entire population] were at risk. > Israel launched an air assault on Gaza on Saturday 27 December 2008, following a series of rocket attacks on its territory and the collapse of a shaky truce that had been in effect for the past six months. Israel’s military intelligence chief said Hamas’ ability to fire rockets had been reduced by 50%. Hamas rocket fire dropped off sharply, from more than 130 on Saturday 27 December 2008 to just over 20 on Sunday 28 December 2008. Hamas launched a total of 40 rockets and mortars at Israel Sunday 28 December 2008, bringing to around 300 the number fired since the six- month truce ended. > [@](#): > > Hamas launched an upsurge in rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza once it declared an end to a truce with Israel on 19 December 2008. By 18 December 2008 Palestinian militants had fired at least 40 missiles into Israel since Tuesday 16 December 2008. On Wednesday 17 December 2008 no less than 24 rockets landed in the Western Negev desert area. On Thursday 18 December 2008 a further seven rockets landed in Israel. On December 24, five days after the lull arrangement ended, the cities of Ashqelon , Netivot and Sderot, the towns and villages near the Gaza Strip, the crossings and IDF bases were subjected to a massive rocket and mortar shell attack. At least 60 rockets and mortar shells were fired, most of them by Hamas. Palestinian militants fired over 40 rockets and 20 mortar shells at southern Israeli border towns in the largest daily attack since the end of a six-month ceasefire. Hamas responded by firing more rockets and mortars into southern Israel. > [@](#): > > Hamas now has longer range Iranian-made rockets, and several hit near the Israeli port city of Ashdod for the first time, 23 miles [37 km] from Gaza.Israel’s Home Front Command recommended that all communities within a 40-kilometer range of Gaza be hooked up to the Color Red incoming missile alert system. > > On 28 December 2008, two impacts of artillery rockets were identified near the towns of Gan Yavne and Bnei Darom. The rockets were launched from the northern Gaza Strip and attained ranges of some 33-34 km. Examination showed that they were Chinese-made rockets with similar characteristics to standard 122-mm rockets. The maximum range of those rockets is up to 40 km. > [@](#): > > Grad > > On 28 February 2008 at least 10 Grad rockets hit the coastal city of Ashkelon, about ten miles from the Israeli border with the Gaza Strip. At least 60 more Qassams, targeted Sderot that day. During the first few days of March 2008 dozens of Qassam rockets and Grad-type Katyushas were fired at Ashkelon, Sderot and communities bordering Gaza. Ashkelon is only a few minutes away from the Qassam-battered city of Sderot, the principal target of Qassam attacks. The western edge of Sderot is about a mile from the border with Gaza. The Israeli Center for Victims of Terror and War found that 28 percent of adults and 30 percent of children of Sderot have post-traumatic stress disorder. when Hamas broke open the border with Egypt, Hamas was able to bring in more of the manufactured Katyusha rockets. > [@](#): > > Qassam > > Production of the shorter range Qassam rocket began in September 2001, following the outbreak of the Al-Aqsa Intifada. The rockets have been manufactured and deployed primarily from the Gaza Strip although Israeli Defense Forces have seized rockets in the West Bank. The Qassam rocket is cylindrical and contains a small warhead on its tip. The rocket contains four small stabilizing wings on one end, a middle section containing the engine, and an attached warhead with a detonating fuse on the other end. The rocket is constructed from iron approximately 2.5-3mm thick. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/248 "2012-11-19T17:44:07Z")
> [@AlienVessels](#): > > Really? And the blockade will magically end Of course, but it won’t require magic. It will simply require the IDF high command to issue an order to that effect. > [@](#): > > and Israeli colonization will stop? Lol, Israel unilaterally pulled all of its settlements out of Gaza many years ago. ETA: Were you unaware of this? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/249 "2012-11-19T17:45:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think Hamas gets them from Iran. > > Regards, > Shodan Either the funding or the weapons themselves, yeah. Some of the newer, longer range rockets are probably manufactured in Iran…or, at the very least, are Iranian in design. My own guess is that the materials and designs are smuggled into Gaza and then manufactured there, but that’s because it’s got to be difficult getting large numbers of rockets past the blockade, while getting the materials past would be a bit easier. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/250 "2012-11-19T17:49:29Z")
I know that the smaller rockets are mostly home built, but the parts and expertise for the longer range rockets come from Iran, hauled in trucks across Egypt. I’m just wondering who is paying, and who is profiting? Does Iran just donate all the weapons and weapon-making supplies, or do they get paid? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/251 "2012-11-19T18:03:31Z")
My WAG is that, yes, Iran just donates the money and weapons and tech. The profit, such as it is, is to foment trouble for Israel and take the worlds eyes off of Iran and fix them onto the perennial conflict between Palestinians and Israel. Hamas profits by having weapons to asymmetrically strike at Israel (showing that they can do that, and gaining cred with a lot of anti-Israeli groups in the region, as well as their own people), with the added benefit that some non-zero number of their own civilian population is going to get killed or injured…and every man, woman and child killed will just be that much more fuel on the fire, and add that many more angry and hurting people willing to strap bombs to themselves or fire the next round of rockets at Israel. To Hamas it’s all about keeping that hatred on the burner and chugging along nicely. It’s all they have left, since they have to realize that Israel isn’t going to go away…and that they will never, ever get the opportunities they had in the past for a real, viable Palestine. That train is gone, so this is all they have left. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/252 "2012-11-19T18:18:21Z")
Iran’s “profit” is that they are a brutal dictatorship that only continues to exist because they are able to 1) claim legitimacy as a Muslim theocracy and 2) demonstrate (1) by violently opposing the Western boogeyman in the form of the US and Israel. They can’t survive without an enemy. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/253 "2012-11-19T18:25:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So they should agree to sit down with any preconditions, and not leave until there are two recognized sovereign nations? Yes. Of course, unlike what is currently happening it would all be very humane. They’d be allowed to eat, sleep, go to the bathroom and even take the odd coffee break or two. Unless of course, you either think the current cycle on endless retaliations by either side is ‘good enough’ or would go further as the late Ariel Sharon’s son, the apparently even more deranged, Gilad, proposes in his latest “article” in the J. Post: [**A decisive conclusion is necessary**](http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?ID=292466&R=R1&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) > [@](#): > > There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity. \*\*We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too. > > There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, _nothing_. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire\*\* . The Final Solution indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/254 "2012-11-19T18:34:08Z")
**RedFury** , would you mind if your neighbor regularly tossed rocks at your house if a judge ruled in your favor on a property line dispute? Might occasionally hit you or a family member. But you would have no problem with that at all, if you are to be consistent. Also, still waiting to hear you deplore the fact that Palestinians are kept as outsiders within their host nations, including those that were born there, and have never lived anywhere else. Palestinian ghetto’s in Lebanon and other host nations are not the fault of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/255 "2012-11-19T18:41:20Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > RedFury: Not a bad choice. They banned minarets, AND kosher slaughter. That’s pretty even-handed. That’s fuckin’ awesome! I’ve never lived in a Muslim country but I find those constant chants to prayer annoying as hell. They can get a compass and put their blankies down facing West all they want, but they don’t need to bother the shit out of all the other people that aren’t interested in talking to sky pixies. As for the kosher slaughter, I don’t care on way or another, but I am sure no one is going to starve in The Land Of Cheese And Chocolate® even if they have to alter their diets somewhat. So, good on them. And yes, I had a hunch they’d be a solid pick. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/256 "2012-11-19T18:44:58Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Unless of course, you either think the current cycle on endless retaliations by either side is ‘good enough’ or would go further as the late Ariel Sharon’s son, the apparently even more deranged, Gilad, proposes in his latest “article” in the J. Post: [/QUOTE] Well yeah, 'cause it’s not like there are any folks in Palestine or from Hamas who use over the top rhetoric, right? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/257 "2012-11-19T18:48:24Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > **RedFury** , would you mind if your neighbor regularly tossed rocks at your house if a judge ruled in your favor on a property line dispute? Might occasionally hit you or a family member. Well, if I’d stolen my neighbor’s house I might, just might, have a minor clue as to why he is pissed off – and if I launched an RPG\* at him in retaliation I might even understand why he’d try to hit me back with a Molotov Cocktail\*. A thief shooting at its victims can never call it self-defense. \*Because, you see, I am rich and he is not. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/258 "2012-11-19T18:50:18Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I honestly don’t know what I’d do if I were in Israels shoes, even assuming I was a God Emperor of Israel and my will was law and all that. It doesn’t seem to matter what Israel does, to be honest. If they do surgical strikes they get retaliation. If they do nothing then they are attacked. If they retaliate then they get more retaliation. Hamas is pretty obviously (well, to everyone but Red and a few other posters in this thread) doing all this deliberately, to prompt Israel into attacking and causing causalities to their own population to keep the cycle of violence going. When things get hot, look for Hamas to start making noises about a cease fire (which they will get), and then things will calm down…until the next time. Rinse and repeat until…well, gods know. I guess until there isn’t an Israel there anymore. I can’t see any other outcome. Kinda why I’m really pleased with how well the Iron Dome system is working, and the progress being made on the directed-energy anti-missile systems that Raytheon is working on. It’s not going to be too long now before preventing rocket attacks with 99%+ efficiency is going to be a matter of paying less than it costs to actually fire back, and at that point it becomes a lot more feasible to ignore the rockets and try to build some rapport with the next generation. Which is really the way to win. The Palestinians would win in a heartbeat if they could get all the rocket-firers and bomb-wearers to sit down and start singing “We Shall Overcome” instead, and the Israelis would win in a generation if they’d stop firing back and start expanding a humanitarian program aimed at constructing a viable Palestinian state. I know that’s been tried by the UN before, and failed, but my thought is that it takes a long time to get past institutionalized hatred and into “Those guys feed and house us, why are we shooting at them again? Who benefits?” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/259 "2012-11-19T18:50:38Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well, if I’d stolen my neighbor’s house I might, just might, have a minor clue as to why he is pissed off – and if I launched an RPG\* at him in retaliation I might even understand why he’d try to hit me back with a Molotov Cocktail\*. > > \*Because, you see, I am rich and he is not. And if you’d raped his sheep and tossed his grandmother down a well, that probably would piss him off as well. But, getting back to the Israeli/Palestine situation which doesn’t even vaguely resemble your ridiculous analogy… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137/260 "2012-11-19T18:53:39Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well, if I’d stolen my neighbor’s house I might, just might, have a minor clue as to why he is pissed off – and if I launched an RPG\* at him in retaliation I might even understand why he’d try to hit me back with a Molotov Cocktail\*. > > A thief shooting at its victims can never call it self-defense. > > \*Because, you see, I am rich and he is not. Anyone attempting to portray this conflict (at least in the long term) with Palestinians as victims of Israel is either misinformed or selling something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/operation-pillar-of-cloud-gaza-under-siege/641137.md?page=14)