Me, I’m just upset that Venezuela is committing acts of espionage on US territory.
Figured this would be a good place to dump this. Make your own determinations if this could possibly have any impact on the accusations cited in the OP:
Perhaps…just maybe mind you…perhaps Chavez is feeling a bit of pressure and wants to divert attention from the whole President For Life thingy by rallying the troops against the Evil US Aggression and Mad Bush™? It’s a thought…
-XT
Beyond anything else, do any of the following plans seem realistic for an intelligence agency?:
And all of these would be more along the lines of State Department:
Now, this really is a question, in that I’d be happy to see cites of the CIA using such techniques, but as it is, I don’t see how it even could, much less would. (Obviously, a coup wouldn’t be at all unrealistic, though I’m dubious that the CIA is planning one of those, either.) An accusation that the CIA is going to “protest with violent, disruptive actions” does, however, serve all too well to discredit valid groups that wish to protest Chavez.
So yeah, this is pretty obviously bullshit.
ETA: if this work is supposed to be a quotation, I should note that I could imagine an American describing anti-Chavez literature as “propaganda”.
Meh. More of the same.
This is just the prep work for Chavez trying to milk something out of what little might happen during the referendum. The reality is that the opposition has no plan for this referendum. There is no real chance of it ending against Chavez and nobody seems inclined to do anything.
There will be some little rioting and looting. Some from opposition extremists and random opportunists trying to save a buck on their christmas shopping. There will also be some “rioting” by the chavistas, all conveniently close to the businesses of opposition members, who still have accounts to settle with the government.
Other than that, expect nothing.
Eh? The CIA (which has notorious difficulty in remembering that it is supposed to be an intelligence agency and nothing more) did exactly that sort of thing (and far worse) in Central America in the '70s and '80s.
Ah, those were the days . . . Nowadays, operations “code”-names all seem to have been cooked up by marketing departments: Operation Desert Shield, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Infinite Justice . . . Bush I’s invasion of Panama was actually called Operation Just Cause :rolleyes: . . .
Well…two things. First off, the CIA didn’t do things like what is supposedly in this sooper sekrit CIA report in your OP. They did DIFFERENT bad things.
The second things is…we know what the CIA did in Central and South America. Get it?
Seriously…why are you willing to buy into this transparent piece of crap? Is it really so opaque to you that Chavez MIGHT be using anti-American sentiment to distract from his own problems at home? Use your own Occam’s Razor on this BG…is it more likely that the CIA is both sinister enough to cook this up, brilliant and far reaching enough to have that laundry list of things they are supposedly doing, and stupid enough to leave the cook book out where some schmo can pick it up and continently carry it to the eagle eyed Venezuelan authorities? Or is it a simpler explanation that Chavez et al simply cooked this up to divert from the very real things going on politically in Venezuela atm?
Yeah, the US COULD be doing these things. And maybe something resembling proof (that is believable by more than you) will come to light. Until them my own BS detector is pretty much pegged out over this thing…
-XT
To wit, that plan sounds pretty far-fetched. The CIA has no capability to do any such thing, and the “plan” is ludicrously vague, containing no mention of any resources which would be required to carry out this far-reaching plan, certainly not in a week.
Not at all. It’s perfectly plausible. And that’s what I hope it is. But the alternative is also plausible, based on the CIA’s track record, including the role they and other U.S. agencies very probably played in the first attempt to oust Chavez.
One of the underappreciated consequences of bad behavior is that it makes it so much easier for others to slander you when you’re innocent.
Based on the CIA’s track record for both evil and incompetence, that is entirely plausible.
“Operacion Tenaza” (Operation Pliers) does sound like a typical name for the Venezuelan police forces, btw. Another good reason to believe this is all cooked by the local government. They used a Venezuelan naming convention instead of the CIA’s.
I don’t see any way to clear away the muck here, its a wilderness of mirrors, to borrow the phrase.
Is it extraordinary to believe that the CIA is screwing with Chavez, somethilng which requires an exceptional level of proof to accept? You mean, like I try to suggest that Kieth Richards may be on drugs? Nothing extraordinary about it, you’d be harder pressed to find a country in Central or South America that we didn’t screw around with!
As well, we have to consider that Chavez has other enemies (me, for one, and any other self-respecting lefty…) Chavez has pissed off a lot of rich people and rich companies, and they have resources, too, not just the CIA. There are probably all kinds of plots to affect the election afoot, some subtle and some other comic-opera boffo. Fingerprints are hard to come by.
Now, aside from the obvious political benefit for Chavez in rattling the US boogeyman, there is the likelihood that he truly believes it, CIAanoia is both a delusion and a survival skill in Latin America. He may be exaggerating a genuine effort, or mistaking one enemy for another. Anybody who speaks about this with any level of assurance, like we actually know, is almost certainly wrong.
I was willing to cut him some slack to start with, but his true colors are becoming more clear every day, he is but another political opportunist exploiting a populist and egalitarian movement for his own glorification. He and GeeDubya deserve each other, unfortunately, neither we not the Venezualans deserve either of them.
Incidentally, for those who didn’t decide to explore the OP’s site, GlobalResearch.ca, has many more articles on topics like the North American Union, 9/11 conspiracy theories, and many, many more.
So if it’s not already obvious, this particular site is miles (okay, kilometers) beyond credible.
ETA: Brainglutton, my point was not that the CIA wouldn’t do anything bad or subversive. I merely fail to see that this operation matches their modus operandi at all and would like a citation to the contrary.
Unless you credit Chavez with a Hitleresque energy and capacity to keep on top of every little thing, it is also possible that the memo in the OP is disinformation spread by somebody in the Venezuelan intelligence service, but without Chavez’ knowledge or connivance; and it might even be intended to fool him, for reasons related to some intragovernmental power-struggle. Hall of mirrors indeed.
Yeah. Except it works directly to his benefit. Some power struggle.
When the leader’s position is unchallenged, there can still be plenty of jockeying for position in the top echelons. There are countless examples in history – in monarchies, in dictatorships, and in genuine republics.
The obvious conclusion is that this is disinformation. And why? Let’s look at the claims, and try to figure out why Chavez might attempt to put this idea out there now:
Isn’t it convenient that now if there are protests over the election, Chavez can have his goons crack heads and arrest people. After all, they’re enemy agents - plants by the CIA. This gives him cover to break up protests should he need to.
Declaring that people are ‘ungovernable’ is all the justification you need to institute martial law or otherwise suspend any sort of due process. And it helps if the reason they are ungovernable is because the evil U.S. is at fault.
So now if there’s a general uprising, Chavez can claim that it was created by the CIA, and not really a sign of his unpopularity.
Right. So now if some anti-Chavez voters show up, they can be frog-marched out by the police and the polling station can be shut down.
And this helps defuse the political damage Chavez would take if the results actually trend against him.
Never heard of Ravell and Globovision, but assuming these are legitimate press agencies, Chavez now has an excuse to shut them down as well if he doesn’t like what they are reporting. And, for good measure he can kick the foreign press out of the country if their reporting would be embarassing.
And now he’s got an excuse to arrest them as well.
This is right out of the old revolutionary playbook. Despots on both the right and left have been using these tactics forever.
Really, Brainglutton. Put on your thinking cap. If this intel was real, do you really think the only place you’d hear about it is from a nutty Marxist “research organization”? I mean really… This organization specializes in ‘alternate 9/11 theories’. It’s a collection of whack jobs and fanatics.
Back in Stalin’s day, he had a term for people like this. He called them ‘useful idiots’.
Lenin (attrib.)
Hmmm…
:smack: I knew we should have encrypted that document. It’s just, this was my first time as agent X (a.k.a. Paul Peck). Why did you have to show that document in its entirety Finn?? I had them more than half believing that the US would never do anything like that…everyone but that cursed BG. If it wasn’t for those rotten kids and their little dog it would have worked, too…curses!
-XT
Too good (for Chavez) to be true, also emanates from Venezuela`s own frigging intelligence services, the stench of fish on all this could make a crab puke.
I´ve been reading the original cite in Spanish language and its embarrasing (that and the whole site), Id dare to say it`s an obvious forgery by the use of the language. For once if this was an american memo, written in English, the operation would be called Operation Pincers, not Pliers; pliers being a translation of “pinzas” as mentioned here:
On a strategic context you don´t make a pliers maneouver, you make a pincers maneouver.
Then on a secret memo you dont name all your contacts for no reason at all, it has a long list of supposed collaborators and where they work/operate. Its a laundry list of people to get shuned, prosecuted or whatever.
This part is a riot:
“…excute the military actions in support for the movilizations and propaganda takes (?), finish the operational preparations of our forces garrisoned on the adjoining bases. The support from the external teams from the green and blue country, has been coordinated, the naval action of blue has been anticipated and the borders with green on the predetermined points are free.”
This is pure Chavista porn, armies at the border readty to pounce from the “green and blue” country? Give me a break.
Of course the US has done shit along this lines before, but c´mon, the only thing missing from that memo is a sketch of Snidely Whiplash twirling his moustache.