# Opie and Anthony Controversy -- Hypocrisy by Catholics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916 "2002-08-21T13:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/1 "2002-08-21T13:54:37Z")
For those who do not know, here is the setup: Opie and Anthony a shock jock afternoon radio show, offers prizes to listeners who perform sex in high risk areas. Last week, two listeners, along with a producer of the show were arrested at St. Patrick’s Cathderal in New York City for performing a sex act in a confessional while a mass was being conducted. Opie and Anthony have been suspended and a large number of Catholic groups are demaning that WNEW, the station which broadcasts the show have its license revoked. Now, Don’t misunderstand me, I think what happened was DISRESPECTFUL and DISGUSTING and an insult to the sacredness of houses of worship – I agree with the uproar and the displinary actions surrounding it. But. . . I am really pissed of at these Catholic organizations – where the hell have they been during this whole priest abuse scandal? Why aren’t they expressing outrage at the fact that hundreds of youth have been scared by this sexual abuse – which often times occured in rectories and churches! I just don’t want to hear how “outraged” these groups are at the Opie and Anthony stunt. Where were they all these years? I believe they are hypocrites! Your thoughts? Such hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/2 "2002-08-21T14:21:15Z")
The two scandals have nothing to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/3 "2002-08-21T14:21:15Z")
The two scandals have nothing to do with each other. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/4 "2002-08-21T14:40:35Z")
**Furnishesq,** do you have any evidence that these unnamed “Catholic organizations” who have denounced this stunt have not also denounced the pedophilia scandal? If these groups have failed to express outrage at the pedophilia scandal, you may have a point. From the OP, however, it looks as though you are just assuming they haven’t. Considering that many Catholic organizations have spoken out, you assumption may well be in error. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/5 "2002-08-21T14:50:03Z")
No one in those church groups condones the sexual abuse of children, so they cannot be hypocritical for opposing the use of their church as the staging ground for acts which they find distasteful, degrading, and sacreligious. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/6 "2002-08-21T14:55:27Z")
Opie and Anthony haven’t been suspended, [according to this Washington Post column by Howard Kurtz](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43721-2002Aug21.html). > [@](#): > > The suspensions of general manager Ken Stephens and program director Jeremy Coleman will continue ‘while the company reviews the matter,’ Infinity Radio spokesman Dana McClintock said > … > > But Opie and Anthony, the bad-boy jocks who instigated the salacious encounter, have not been suspended, though they did remain off the air for a second day yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/7 "2002-08-21T15:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\ ***Furnishesq,** do you have any evidence that these unnamed “Catholic organizations” who have denounced this stunt have not also denounced the pedophilia scandal? > > If these groups have failed to express outrage at the pedophilia scandal, you may have a point. From the OP, however, it looks as though you are just assuming they haven’t. Considering that many Catholic organizations have spoken out, you assumption may well be in error. > > Sua \*\* The “unnamed group” is the Catholic League. Their president, William Donohue is all over the news demanding a hefty fine and a license revocation for WNEW. – I don’t have a problem with any of that. And as an avid reader of this priest scandal, I have not heard anything on what they are doing – and they certainly aren’t rasing hell (pardon the obvious pun) about it. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/8 "2002-08-21T15:19:41Z")
While on the subject, what’s the NAACP doing about the high crime rate? The Catholic League is a group formed for the specific purpose of fighting offensiveness to Catholics and Catholicism. There’s no reason for this group to “raise hell” about anything else (though the individual members may do that under other auspices). ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/9 "2002-08-21T15:22:26Z")
Is this going to be a running commentary for EVERY time someone Catholic speaks about against anything? “Y’know, it’s nice the Catholics are against racism/third world exploitation/environmental destrucion/etc., but where were they during the pedophilia thing?” Sheesh. By their own standards, the American church screwed up. That has nothing to do with 1) speaking out against other wrongs (particularly wrongs you are also against), or 2) having realized their error, trying to make reparations. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/10 "2002-08-21T15:28:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*Is this going to be a running commentary for EVERY time someone Catholic speaks about against anything? “Y’know, it’s nice the Catholics are against racism/third world exploitation/environmental destrucion/etc., but where were they during the pedophilia thing?” > > Sheesh. By their own standards, the American church screwed up. That has nothing to do with 1) speaking out against other wrongs (particularly wrongs you are also against), or 2) having realized their error, trying to make reparations. \*\* Nice try, I appreciate the attempt to dodge the question but Catholics, should express public outrage that other catholics (priest) have and are scarring hundreds of children. So until this problem is solved, those who scream the loudest about “offenses” to Catholics should better mention the hurt, shame and intense pain created in their own house. I hope I said that respectfully, you are all making valid points – but I really get hot on this topic. Silence and failing to speak out is what created this scandal in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/11 "2002-08-21T15:29:21Z")
Well, the Pope is the official spokesman of the Roman Catholic church, and he says: > [@](#): > > “Like you, I too have been deeply grieved by the fact that priests and religious, whose vocation it is to help people live holy lives in the sight of God, have themselves caused such suffering and scandal to the young,” the pope said in a statement. > > "Because of the great harm done by some priests and religious, the church herself is viewed with distrust, and many are offended at the way in which the church’s leaders are perceived to have > acted in this matter. > > The abuse which has caused this crisis is by every standard wrong and rightly considered a crime by society; it is also an > appalling sin in the eyes of God." > **[Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe](https://www.newsmax.com)** > > Newsmax.com reports today’s news headlines, live news stream, news videos from Americans and global readers > seeking the latest in current events, politics, U.S., world news, health, finance, and more. The Catholic League, as far as I can tell, is sort of the Anti-Defamation League for the Catholic church. They respond mostly to attacks on their church from without, although they have condemned the priestly pedophelia as well. I wouldn’t necessarily call it hypocrisy if some group has less interest in maximizing a scandal in its midst than outsiders do. I would condemn desecration of a synagogue even if a couple of its members were guilty of pedophelia as well. As **december** says, I don’t see that the two scandals are connected. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/12 "2002-08-21T16:11:33Z")
Catholic League, Catholic League – ah, here we go… [http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0068.html](http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0068.html) > [@](#): > > You would normally expect someone calling for the bankrupting of Catholic dioceses to be upbraided by the vociferous Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, the New York-based watchdog organization. Not this time. Bill Donohue, the scrappy Catholic League chief who never backs away from a battle, is leaving the Church to fight its own fight on this one. > > “The Catholic League is not the Church’s water boy,” says Donohue. “We are here to defend the Church from the kind of scurrilous attacks that have become all too frequent in our society. But we will never defend the indefensible [the priest sex scandal].” From the Catholic League’s web site: > [@](#): > > We were mostly pleased by the news coverage [of the sex scandal] but were unhappy with many columnists and cartoonists. Instead of focusing on those in the wrong, they took wide swipes at the Catholic Church. Thus did they promote a stereotypical view of priests. > We will continue to defend the masses of priest who are good men while never defending the indefensible. Another one: [http://pub176.ezboard.com/fgracetodayfrm1.showMessage?topicID=4.topic](http://pub176.ezboard.com/fgracetodayfrm1.showMessage?topicID=4.topic) > [@](#): > > “It’s Lent, and Christ is giving the Church a big cross to bear [the sex scandal] - one that it has earned,” said Bill Donohue, the president of the Catholic League. A transcript of William Donohue on Crossfire: [http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/2002/04/042502\_Crossfire\_Brock.pdf](http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/2002/04/042502_Crossfire_Brock.pdf) Donohue is generally a loon, and has also made some asinine comments about homosexuality in connection with the sex scandal, but he has been speaking out on the issue. Sua ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/13 "2002-08-21T17:08:39Z")
I saw one of the representatives on TV this morning. I got a kick out of his comment (I’m paraphrasing), “The Catholic Church is the only group you’re allowed to discriminate against nowadays.” Hmmm, seems to me I’ve heard that same quote said about Muslims, obese people, disabled people, people with bad teeth and/or hair, people with body odor, people missing a button on their shirt, and the NY Yankees. IMNSHO, everyone involved in this insulting behavior (including the diatribe against the church while the couple were shagging) should be hauled out back and shot.\* But the Catholic League lost mucho points it never had with me when they dragged out this tired line. \*_That’s called rhetoric and is not to be taken literally_ ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/14 "2002-08-21T17:29:25Z")
> [@](#): > > **D\_Odds** I got a kick out of his comment (I’m paraphrasing), “The Catholic Church is the only group you’re allowed to discriminate against nowadays.” Hmmm, seems to me I’ve heard that same quote said about Muslims, obese people, disabled people, people with bad teeth and/or hair, people with body odor, people missing a button on their shirt, and the NY Yankees. I doubt that you have heard a similar comment about all the groups you list. If you really have, please provide cites. Judging from movies and TV, there are a limited number of groups that it’s OK to mock: – the Catholic Church – Fundamentalism and Fundamentalists (cutely referred to as “fundies”) – Nazis – Bigots and alleged bigots – Businessmen – Republicans – Men with toupees You’re right about the New York Yankees being a safe target, D\_Odds\*\* But, I would warn you not to try mocking Muslims, obese people, or disabled people – especially on this board. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/15 "2002-08-21T18:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*I doubt that you have heard a similar comment about all the groups you list. If you really have, please provide cites. > > Judging from movies and TV, there are a limited number of groups that it’s OK to mock: > > – the Catholic Church > – Fundamentalism and Fundamentalists (cutely referred to as “fundies”) > – Nazis > – Bigots and alleged bigots > – Businessmen > – Republicans > – Men with toupees > > You’re right about the New York Yankees being a safe target, D\_Odds\*\* But, I would warn you not to try mocking Muslims, obese people, or disabled people – especially on this board. \*\* Huh? Since when was it alright to bash Catholics, and who is bashing them? It seems like they have been givien a heck of a lot of leeway over the years. If any other group had this type of history with sexual abuse of young children there would be mass hysteria. Peodophile Priests are the only group of sex criminals I know that get sympathy and those who point this out or point to the problem are called “Catholic Bashers” what about the countless victims who trusted their priest? What about those who went to their bishops to warn them and then the bishop did nothing? I can say that if you go to the majority of Catholic parishes in the US today, you will meet people who have been affected by this scandal in one form or another. New victims come forward everyday. No, the Catholic church has gotten away with this and been given a free pass for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/16 "2002-08-21T18:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > You’re right about the New York Yankees being a safe target, **D\_Odds** But, I would warn you not to try mocking Muslims, obese people, or disabled people – especially on this board. I wasn’t trying to. However, I’ve heard the statement where (x) is the only group that can be safely mocked used by several groups, including the three you list. I’m going to have trouble finding a cite for the people with missing buttons, so you’ll just have to take my word on that one 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/17 "2002-08-21T18:35:19Z")
I am surprised that the OP has not withdrawn his accusation of hypocrisy against the Catholic League, after the evidence posted above that they have, in fact, spoken out against pedophile priests. I’m also curious about the proposition that the pedophile priests are the only group of sex offenders that “get sympathy”. I would suggest that incest prepetrators get much more in the way of institutional sympathy, given the emphasis of social service agencies to “reunify the family” and prosecutors to charge incest as opposed to sexual assualt. Both practices are well-entrenched, and well-documented. > [@](#): > > Peodophile Priests are the only group of sex criminals I know that get sympathy and > those who point this out or point to the problem are called “Catholic Bashers” what about the countless victims who trusted their priest? This is an example of the logical fallacy of _argumentum ad misericordiam_, or Appeal To Pity. The betrayal of trust of victims doesn’t bear on whether or not pedophile priests are the only group of sex offenders given sympathy. > [@](#): > > I can say that if you go to the majority of Catholic parishes in the US today, you will meet people who have been affected by this scandal in one form or another. New victims come forward everyday. _Argumentum ad numerum_. The number of people abused doesn’t have any bearing on the issue of whether pedophile priests have been given sympathy, or if they are the only group of sex offenders who have been shown sympathy. This is, after all, GD. If you have a claim, support it with argument and evidence, not with fallacy. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/18 "2002-08-21T18:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by furnishesq_ > No, the Catholic church has gotten away with this and been given a free pass for a long time. Which is a valid debate topic in its own right. But given that you’ve accused another in this thread of attempting to “dodge the question” shouldn’t you at least acknowledge that the premise of your OP is incorrect, as proven by **SuaSponte**? If you want to debate the pedophilia scandal, then you can do it or look at some of the many threads about it in GD. But it seems a tad ironic that you would accuse somebody of dodging the issue and then change the topic once you were shown to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/19 "2002-08-21T18:57:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoff \* > \*\* > Which is a valid debate topic in its own right. But given that you’ve accused another in this thread of attempting to “dodge the question” shouldn’t you at least acknowledge that the premise of your OP is incorrect, as proven by **SuaSponte**? > > If you want to debate the pedophilia scandal, then you can do it or look at some of the many threads about it in GD. But it seems a tad ironic that you would accuse somebody of dodging the issue and then change the topic once you were shown to be wrong. \*\* Nope, Nada, wrong – I don’t see the Catholic Leauge demanding that the Bishops who covered up this abuse for over 50 years be fired or pay damages to the victims do you? Where was this given in the citations given? I don’t except an “oops we did bad” the same as what they are doing in the Opie and Anthony Controversy do you? And if you do, we have an even bigger disagreement. Second, what about all the non Catholic League catholic protestors at today’s Opia and Anthony hearing? I don’t see them picketing outside the Diocese headquarters (which Diocese? pick anyone you want) do you? Now, please show my the “irony” of my ways and show me that these people want the heads of the cover up bishops and priest on a platter like they want to do with Opie and Anthony. Not an “oops, that was wrong wasn’t it” Its just not the same! ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/20 "2002-08-21T19:05:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*I > _Argumentum ad numerum_. The number of people abused doesn’t have any bearing on the issue of whether pedophile priests have been given sympathy, or if they are the only group of sex offenders who have been shown sympathy. > > This is, after all, GD. If you have a claim, support it with argument and evidence, not with fallacy. > > - Rick \*\* With all due respect, (and I do mean that I think you make very valid points) the powers that be COVERED UP THE ABUSE and prosecutors looked the other way for decades! I bring up the number of victims merely as an indicator that this is more than just a few isolated incidents of coverup! Incest is horrible, horrible thing, but it is not an institutional problem as it is with the Catholic scandal. Further, I agree with everyone when they say that most groups have made the obligatory “aw shucks we did a bad thing” when it comes to the pedophilia – but it is not the same as the massive firestorm occuring for this Opia and Anthony thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916.md?page=2)