# Opie and Anthony Controversy -- Hypocrisy by Catholics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916 "2002-08-21T13:54:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/41 "2002-08-22T19:25:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furnishesq \* > \*\* > > Nice try, I appreciate the attempt to dodge the question but Catholics, should express public outrage that other catholics (priest) have and are scarring hundreds of children. So until this problem is solved, those who scream the loudest about “offenses” to Catholics should better mention the hurt, shame and intense pain created in their own house. > > I hope I said that respectfully, you are all making valid points – but I really get hot on this topic. Silence and failing to speak out is what created this scandal in the first place. \*\* Nope, you didn’t say that respectfully. Am I the only one who is _really sick and tired_ of double-digit post count newbies saying stuff like “nice try” to brush off counterarguments? Respond or ignore, but don’t be snide and flippant. Can’t you at least be a _little_ less condescending when you’re just starting to have a presence on this board? Start being nicer now, then stick with it…it’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Newton\_meter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/57b2e6/32.png) [@Newton\_meter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Newton_meter)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/42 "2002-08-22T19:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RexDart \* > **Am I the only one who is _really sick and tired_ of double-digit post count newbies saying stuff like “nice try” to brush off counterarguments?** You’re _not_ the only one. And I’ve just about had it _up to here_ with triple-digit post count posters who _chronically_ overuse italics in their posts. They should be an entire _order of magnitude_ beyond _that_ by now. Now, _that’s_ more like some _hypocrisy_. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/43 "2002-08-22T19:44:24Z")
Sigh, did any of you read Lila by Robert Persig? He makes an excellent point on how anthropology is a useless science because of the insistance of an objective scientfic standard instead of a subjective moral one. So you guys cut it out. You know what I am getting at about lack of moral outrage from a subjective standpoint I have asked numerous questions about my theory yet I am attacked for not providing objective numerical data – I gave you an entire website to look at. You are so lost in the form of objectivity you fail to look at the bigger picture. And if you are “sick” and tired" of newbi posters, than read some other debate. Some of you are demanding explanations others say stop it. If you don’t like my point, or think its useless don’t debate it. You moral outage at my form over my substance is really annoying. . . ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/44 "2002-08-22T19:49:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*On preview, I see that Newton has addressed the difference between hypocriscy and different responses to different situations. > > Furnish, you say: > > Despite a mountain of citations in the thread above, you return here to the hyperbolic assertion that people have “ignored” the tragedy in their own house. > > Cut it out. Either provide an example of some person or group that has both IGNORED the priest abuse scandal while at the same time actively attacked the “Opie and Anthony” show stunt, or withdraw the point. > > Which of “…DAs, teachers, parents, lay parishoners, nuns, the Catholic Leauge, the Catholic Conference…” have ignored the priest abuse scandals, and attacked O&A. Who are they? > > - Rick \*\* ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/45 "2002-08-22T19:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*On preview, I see that Newton has addressed the difference between hypocriscy and different responses to different situations. > > Furnish, you say: > Cut it out. Either provide an example of some person or group that has both IGNORED the priest abuse scandal while at the same time actively attacked the “Opie and Anthony” show stunt, or withdraw the point. > > Which of “…DAs, teachers, parents, lay parishoners, nuns, the Catholic Leauge, the Catholic Conference…” have ignored the priest abuse scandals, and attacked O&A. Who are they? > > - Rick \*\* Well, for starters how about the Manhattan District Attorney Office and The ArchDiocese of New York? THere are numerous complaints about priests which have gone nowhere. THe DA office is fighting to keep the O&A pranksters in New York for trial. THe Archdicocese has been quite vocal against the O&A stunt (as well they should) and evidence has come to light that they ignored various complaints of priest and hid others. And I have stated numerous times that the “Catholic Leauge” was silent when it counted on the proiest abuse scandal. Where were they before the Boston GLobe broke the story? ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/46 "2002-08-22T20:06:07Z")
> [@](#): > > So you guys cut it out. You know what I am getting at about lack of moral outrage from a subjective standpoint I have asked numerous questions about my theory yet I am attacked for not providing objective numerical data Then this thread belongs in IMHO. There’s nothing to debate if you want to talk about lack of moral outrage from your subjective point of view. And it seems like a cop out. You made some statements that couldn’t be supported, then changed gears to say that the facts don’t matter. Well, they do in Great Debates. > [@](#): > > And I have stated numerous times that the “Catholic Leauge” was silent when it counted on the proiest abuse scandal. Where were they before the Boston GLobe broke the story? And I have asked you to provide some proof that the Catholic League knew of the scope of abuse during the time you condemn them for their silence. Sorry if I’m acting inappropriately by asking for objective proof. But if you don’t want people asking for proof then don’t make accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/47 "2002-08-22T20:29:16Z")
furnish: Here in Great Debates, certain rules apply. If you wish to share your personal opinion, post in MPSIMS; if you want to solicit others’ opinions, post in IMHO. If you wish to advance a proposition, support it with citation to fact and reasonable inferences to be drawn therefrom, GD is the place. Turning to the specific points you made: > [@](#): > > Well, for starters how about the Manhattan District Attorney Office … THere are numerous complaints about priests which have gone nowhere. A gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied. What specific example do you have of a credible complaint about priest abuse made to the Manhattan DA’s office which “went nowhere”? > [@](#): > > THe DA office is fighting to keep the O&A pranksters in New York for trial. This statement is unclear. Where should the O&A pranksters be tried, if not in NEw York where the crime was committed? Are they fighting a bail motion? Are the accuseds flight risks? In general, the DA’s office is responsible for bringing accused persons to trial, assuming they are indicted or accused by information. While their is such a thing as prosecutorial discretion, no one is seriously contending that the O&A pranskters should not be subjected to the justice system. From all accounts, the DA’s office is acting with reasonable discretion. It falls to you to demonstrate their lack of reasonable exercise of discretion in priest abuse cases. > [@](#): > > Well, for starters how about the … Archodiocese of New York … THere are numerous complaints about priests which have gone nowhere. THe Archdicocese has been quite vocal against the O&A stunt (as well they should) and evidence has come to light that they ignored various complaints of priest and hid others. How, specifically, has the Archdiocese been “quite vocal”? A gratuitous assertion may be equally gratuitously denied. So: no, they haven’t been quite vocal. This is a denial intended to force you to clarify your accusatoin. > [@](#): > > And I have stated numerous times that the “Catholic Leauge” was silent when it counted on the proiest abuse scandal. Where were they before the Boston GLobe broke the story? And you have been asked numerous times for the source or evidence for your belief that the Catholic League knew about the priest abuse scandal before the Boston Globe broke the story. Thus far, you have failed to provide it. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/48 "2002-08-22T23:01:38Z")
Honest question… what do the actions of the Manhattan DA office have to do with inconsistency/hypocrisy on the part of Catholics? There may indeed be (pending citation) inconsistency on the part of the DA, but isn’t that rather separate from the issues raised in the rest of this thread? Are we really worrying more about inconsistent responses to the Opie/Anthony controversy and the priest abuse scandal as a whole, or only by Catholics? Or am I just being thick? ---
**Author:** ![MrLegge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@MrLegge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrLegge)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/49 "2002-08-23T02:48:27Z")
Opie and Anthony have been fired from WNEW in NY, and have lost their syndication deal. WNEW had no choice as they were going to have their licenses revoked by the FCC. Going to miss those guys, and it looks like the end of talk radio here in NY (besides NPR and sports talk) ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/50 "2002-08-23T10:22:34Z")
“Father _pant pant pant_ I’m almost ready to confess…_ugh!_ Ok, we can start now.” Hahahahah, best use of a confessional ever. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/51 "2002-08-23T12:59:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrLegge \* > Opie and Anthony have been fired from WNEW in NY, and have lost their syndication deal. \*\*WNEW had no choice as they were going to have their licenses revoked by the FCC. \*\* _sigh_ I don’t suppose you’d care to defend the bolded portion of your assertion, above? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/52 "2002-08-23T14:37:28Z")
FTR, [here](http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-225637A2.pdf) is a link to the PDF file containing the FCC’s letter of inquiry to Infinity Broadcasting and WNEW, the Catholic League’s letter of complaint, and a transcript of the show. Although the Catholic League does request a fine and license forfeiture in their letter, nowhere does the FCC suggest that license forfeiture is imminent or threatened. As an aside, this Paul Mercurio guy sounds like a complete prick. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/53 "2002-08-23T15:27:21Z")
I see this debate is really going nowhere. No one is really discussing my theory of “moral outrage” – O@A are now fired toast, no more. Good job by the Catholics in pumping up the moral outrage which led to the dismissal. Good job Boston Globe, you created the outrage and the few dismissals of priests whom (although most got to keep their diocesian pensions) where removed because of credible allegations of sexual abuse. This gave others a chance to deal with the “really important” issues of the Catholic Church. Now that O&A are out of the way the Catholics can move on to the really important things – like those darn celeberties that wear crosses as jewlery. As for Great Debates here on this board I really do enjoy it, but we can now use the space on the rest of this thread for debating technical procedural points about what a debate is and citing to irrelevant after the fact quotes from Catholics who did nothing while 100s of chilren were being molested for decades. Oh well. . . ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/54 "2002-08-23T17:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > we can now use the space on the rest of this thread for debating technical procedural points about what a debate is and citing to irrelevant after the fact quotes from Catholics who did nothing while 100s of chilren were being molested for decades. Or use it to continue making naked assertions for which there has been no supporting evidence presented. We’ve tried to discuss your theory of “moral outrage” but you’ve defined it in an indefensible way. You make claims that X didn’t do something when, in fact, X did exactly what you accused them of not doing. Your moral outrage, as defined, is completely without merit. I understand you have issues with the Catholic hierarchy. But to make a claim that was factually rebutted, then whine that “nobody gets it” is ridiculous. You haven’t provided facts to underscore your moral outrage. The problem with this debate is from your end, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![furnishesq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/977dab/32.png) [@furnishesq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnishesq)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/55 "2002-08-23T18:27:14Z")
While the “brain trust” here makes me cringe (using a premise of stating that my points were “factually disputed” when they actually were not and then pretendning not to know my counterpoints) it nothing compared to what got this abortion of a debate started the Opie and Anthony stunt it is like listening to a train wreck – warning not for those easily shocked: > **[Caught On Tape: Opie And Anthony's Sex Stunt](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/caught-tape-opie-and-anthonys-sex-stunt)** > > AUGUST 23--We don't usually agree with the Catholic League, but moronic shock jocks Opie and Anthony got just what they deserved for broadcasting last week's stunt involving the Virginia couple arrest ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/56 "2002-08-24T02:20:24Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. I am contending (and since this is a debate, not the gospel, it is merely my contention) that the evidence shown in previous posts is not the same as what the Catholic Leauge and others are demanding of Opie and Anthony. Mainly, they are demanding that O&A lose their jobs, that the Station pay a hefty fine AND lose their liscense to broadcast – thus eliminating their ablity to be what they are – radio guys. They also want the offenders who committed the sex acts in the church (whom disgust me, I am not defending these unsavory cast of people) to go to jail. Opie and Anthony did not just assist the couple in committing an illegal act, they encouraged it. They had knowledge of it beforehand. They offered money to people to break the law. They broadcast live to glorify the illegal act. How long do you suppose they could have continued doing this? They probably should have been fired the first time they got someone to have sex in public. Geez, I sound like a real puritan. I am an ex-Catholic. I have no problem with people having sex in public, except when they lock the women’s room door and my wife has to go. If you break the law, though, and you get caught, there are consequences. For many people it’s jail. For others its a denial of their god-given right to get rich for being a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/57 "2002-08-24T05:26:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by furnishesq \* > \*\* > No one is really discussing my theory of “moral outrage” – O@A are now fired toast, no more. Good job by the Catholics in pumping up the moral outrage which led to the dismissal. > \*\* So, I guess my question to you would be, assuming that Catholics didn’t spend as much energy speaking out against the priest scandal, and keeping it quiet, what, in your mind, are individual Catholics allowed to be morally outraged about? It just seems like your argument “You didn’t protest the priest scandal loudly enough, so now you can’t protest the Opie and Anthony thing” can be used to say that Catholics can’t protest anything. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916/58 "2002-08-24T14:43:39Z")
> [@](#): > > I am contending (and since this is a debate, not the gospel, it is merely my contention) that the evidence shown in previous posts is not the same as what the Catholic Leauge and others are demanding of Opie and Anthony. Mainly, they are demanding that O&A lose their jobs, that the Station pay a hefty fine AND lose their liscense to broadcast – thus eliminating their ablity to be what they are – radio guys. Not any more, they aren’t. The Catholic League issued a statement yesterday that, since Infinity cancelled the Opie & Anthony show, they don’t feel that a fine or license forfeiture is ncecessary and will petition the FCC to cease their investigation. And nobody is suggesting that these two nimrods cannot be “radio guys,” simply that they not work for Infinity. Believe me, I have a degree in electronic communications and experience in radio – like a bad penny, these two will turn up. > [@](#): > > They also want the offenders who committed the sex acts in the church (whom disgust me, I am not defending these unsavory cast of people) to go to jail. They’re advocating that people who broke the law go to jail? Horrors! Oh, wait – you think they should be advocating the same for pedophile priests? Well, see, the statute of limitations for prosecution on a great many of those cases has long since run out, so advocating their jailing would be advocating massive violations of their Constitutional rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opie-and-anthony-controversy-hypocrisy-by-catholics/124916.md?page=2)