Opinion about division of household labor

[delphica]

Your situation doesn’t seem fair to me, either. For some reason, it’s the laundry that really sticks with me – I would be so bent out of shape if someone agreed to do “the laundry” and then didn’t do a lot of laundry parts, like towels and sheets (how can he not like doing the towels and sheets – that’s the easiest part!!!) and folding and putting away.

He doesn’t sound like he’s too interested in the nuances of the division of labor. Would maybe focusing on time be helpful to you? If your work schedules permit, there are probably a few times in a week where you can find 45 minutes to be doing chores together. And I mean together, like folding laundry together at the kitchen table while listening to music and talking, rather than one person doing all the laundry while someone else is in another room doing something else. Obviously some chores are even more annoying when you try to have two people working at once (especially in a small area like a bathroom) but I still think each partner doing some chore at the same time keeps the whole process moving. What I try to avoid is when Person 1 does Task 1, and Person 2 agrees to do Task 2, but at some vague time in the future that turns into never doing it all. I also like focusing on the time because then you both stop and do something that you actually enjoy doing, even if that means some things are left for later.

In our house, I am the person who is pickier about how chores are done, and I am okay with that meaning that I do slightly more of the chores. Over the years, that has evolved a little for the better - I got more assertive about asking for help, and also (a little) more easy-going about chores done differently than I personally would have done, just as long as they’re completed.

Also, my gut reaction is to give up on the lunch thing. It’s just … too much. He’s an adult, he’s responsible for what he eats.

[Rubystreak]

I’m grading papers now and he’s cleaning the kitchen and bathroom, and doing laundry. We plan to try to do a small amount of chores every day rather than letting it pile up until it’s an enormous task. I’ve never been good at doing that, but it’s really the only way not to have things get out of hand.

@delphica

Your situation doesn’t seem fair to me, either. For some reason, it’s the laundry that really sticks with me – I would be so bent out of shape if someone agreed to do “the laundry” and then didn’t do a lot of laundry parts, like towels and sheets (how can he not like doing the towels and sheets – that’s the easiest part!!!) and folding and putting away.

Oh, bent out of shape about covers it. It has gotten REALLY out of hand, and it took me freaking out about it to get him to acknowledge it. It’s hard when it’s not important to you, to give a damn about it. I guess.

If your work schedules permit, there are probably a few times in a week where you can find 45 minutes to be doing chores together. And I mean together, like folding laundry together at the kitchen table while listening to music and talking, rather than one person doing all the laundry while someone else is in another room doing something else.

I think this is a great idea and I will mention it. Doing it together would be social and more fun, and make it go faster.

Also, my gut reaction is to give up on the lunch thing. It’s just … too much. He’s an adult, he’s responsible for what he eats.

He’s not very responsible for it. When we were dating, if I wanted food when I was at his house I had to bring it with me. He never had any. That’s the way he is. Like I said, I’ll do it happily if I can trade it for some other task that I don’t like as much.

[Giraffe]

@Rubystreak

As for the fast food thing… yeah, it’s me trying to change him, I guess. He wants to eat nicer lunches but would not do it for himself. And I am willing to make the lunch. It saves us money and is better for him. I just need him to step up in other areas that I’m not as good at. I really am NOT good at cleaning and I hate doing it, and gain little satisfaction from it. Cooking and making lunch issatisfying because the product is enjoyable, healthy, and makes me feel happy. It’s cleaning up after that oppresses my soul.

I’m really glad you guys talked and it sounds like he’s willing to meet you halfway, which is great.

I’d recommend changing how you view the making of the lunches, though. He has decided, as an adult, that he doesn’t value the health and money savings of making his own lunches enough to spend the time and effort needed to do it. You obviously value his health and the money savings enough to volunteer to do it for him. As long as you know this isn’t feigned helplessness to manipulate you into doing something he would otherwise do himself (which you do, since he ate this way before you two got married), if you choose to make his lunches for him, you shouldn’t expect him to feel obligated to you for it. Grateful, absolutely, but not indebted and required to compensate you by doing other chores. Your doing this is like a gift, not a loan.

[Harriet_the_Spry]

On the matching socks thing, you might consider pinning them together when you take them off. That’s a tip I picked up on one of the household hints threads here.

[ivylass]

@Rubystreak

I’m grading papers now and he’s cleaning the kitchen and bathroom, and doing laundry. We plan to try to do a small amount of chores every day rather than letting it pile up until it’s an enormous task. I’ve never been good at doing that, but it’s really the only way not to have things get out of hand.

You might try the flylady guidelines. For fifteen minutes, you do one thing, whether it’s cleaning the kitchen, ironing, folding the laundry, whatever. Do not get distracted, do the one thing.

Then, do another thing for the next fifteen minutes, straighten the living room, sweep the kitchen, whatever.

Then, do ANOTHER, different thing for fifteen minutes.

After three fifteen-minute rounds, take a fifteen minute break. As in, sit down with a good book and relax for fifteen minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat as needed until you’re done with what you need to get done.

You will be surprised how much you can get done in 15 minutes, it doesn’t overwhelm you because you break the chores into chunks, and you get a break every hour knowing you earned it. Your husband may also like this method.

[norinew]

@ivylass[/quote

You might try the flylady guidelines. For fifteen minutes, you do one thing, whether it’s cleaning the kitchen, ironing, folding the laundry, whatever. Do not get distracted, do the one thing.

I first found flylady on this message board almost four years ago. It’s been a life-saver ever since. You really cannot believe how much you can accomplish in 15 minutes until you time yourself!

[overlyverbose]

@ivylass

You might try the flylady guidelines. For fifteen minutes, you do one thing, whether it’s cleaning the kitchen, ironing, folding the laundry, whatever. Do not get distracted, do the one thing.

Then, do another thing for the next fifteen minutes, straighten the living room, sweep the kitchen, whatever.

Then, do ANOTHER, different thing for fifteen minutes.

After three fifteen-minute rounds, take a fifteen minute break. As in, sit down with a good book and relax for fifteen minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat as needed until you’re done with what you need to get done.

You will be surprised how much you can get done in 15 minutes, it doesn’t overwhelm you because you break the chores into chunks, and you get a break every hour knowing you earned it. Your husband may also like this method.

I established a routine based on this idea, though it’s a lot simpler since I can never convince myself to do more than about a half hour or so of cleaning in the evening once I’m home from work. First of all, I have our son help me clean up his toys before he goes to bed. He tends to dump then right out again, but still…it’s a good way to build a habit for later. Anyway, once he’s in bed, I set the kitchen timer for 25 minutes. Usually cleaning the kitchen only takes about 10-15 minutes, so I have the extra 10-15 minutes to clean something else. Since our house is relatively clean - mostly just cluttered - it makes an enormous difference. Then once I’m done with that, I set things out for the next day (stuff like setting the table, putting out bowls of dry cereal, getting the coffee ready to go, packing lunch, etc.). It saves an enormous amount of time in the morning and makes mornings much more peaceful.

When I clean, I start at the entry-way to the room and work counterclockwise. That way if the room is really messy, I have better direction and don’t get distracted by other areas of the room.

Regardless, I’m glad the OP talked to her husband. I don’t think home improvement, particularly not the way the OP’s husband is doing it, exempts him from pitching in with household work. Part of being a family is working together. You don’t have to like it - but the rewards are that you get to spend more time together if you both do it at the same time and you don’t have any resentment or one partner taking the other for granted.

[Velma]

This is an issue for so many couples, I think. My husband is very handy and does most of the home renovations and remodeling too. Plus stuff like the yard work, whereas I do the majority of the house work. We never sat down and said ok, you do these chores and I do these, but it did take a bit of negotiating and a while of living together before we kind of settled in. Sometimes I feel like I spend much more time doing chores than he does, but most of the time it is ok. He probably feels the same way. (Right now I am sure he does - I am a few days away from my due date and he has pretty much taken over for me - I am so greatful that he notices and takes over when I need him to that I can forgive a lot at other times )

What usually happens is, when he has a big project going on, I take over even more of the household stuff while he is working. For example, if he is out working on the roof, I make all the meals, clean up everything, do all the laundry, etc. He is “exempt” from household stuff while he is working on this special project. Now I know it can seem like there is always an ongoing project (there is always a list of stuff that needs to be fixed or done) but just because there is something else on the list to do in the future, doesn’t mean he is now off the hook for everything. It’s more like, when one person is obviously busy for whatever reason, the other steps in more. That should go the same for you when you have extra grading or whatever to do.

The daily chores that need to be done, we have gotten pretty good at taking over for each other. When he sees the laundry piling up, he figures I have other stuff to do or need a break, and he will at least throw a load or 2 in on his own. When I see the trash piling up, I take it out myself. Even though those are things the other usually does, I think it is petty to see something that needs to be done and not do it because it is “not your job.” Running a household is something that needs to be done together (especially once you add kids.)

Part of the problem, I think, is that typically women tend to do the things that need doing every day. Like you said, it is tiring doing the dishes / cleaning the kitchen day after day after day only to have someone else messing it up. There is more satisfaction, I think, in jobs that are done once and then are complete, like painting or home renovations, but that is just my opinion. Plus there is a psychological element there, that is, you didn’t mess up that drywall, or make the kitchen need remodeling, or even make the grass grow, but he is contributing to the mess in the bathroom and you are cleaning up after him. For me, there is something irritating about cleaning up after someone else that is not the same as cleaning up your own mess. Especially if the other person won’t do anything to even make it easier, like putting their glass in the dishwasher or socks in the hamper. At least show consideration for the person doing the chore. Likewise, make sure your husband knows you do appreciate him doing all the work around the house. If he thinks you don’t care at all about the work it takes to do home renovations, he is less likely to respect you for what you do too.

[RTFirefly]

Some household hints for you and hubby that seem relevant, from a guy who likes a reasonably clean house, but hates having to spend too much time cleaning:

1. Folding sheets: don’t bother. Strip them from the beds, run them through the washer and dryer, put them back on the same beds.

Repeat over the months and years until either you get so tired of looking at those sheets that you could hork every time you go into the bedroom, or until the sheets get too threadbare to be used, whichever happens first.

2. You can do the same thing with the towels if you’ve got a few extra hand towels: pull all the towels and washcloths out of each bathroom, put one clean hand towel in each bathroom, run the dirty towels and washcloths through the washer and dryer, fold one hand towel from each bathroom and put in linen closet, put the rest directly back on the towel racks.

3. If you’re not already using a Swiffer to sweep any uncarpeted floors you have (even if that’s just the kitchen and bathrooms), get one now. They’re about ten times as easy as a broom, and a lot faster too, since they don’t stir up the dust.

4. Dishwashers mostly come in a standard size. Unless you or hubby has designs on a nonstandard dishwasher in your eventually remodeled kitchen, don’t let hubby use the prospect of remodeling as a reason to not buy a dishwasher. When you’re cooking real meals ~4 nights a week, it takes a lot of extra time to wash that many dishes by hand, but I don’t need to tell you that.

5. If you’re going to cook that often, avail yourself of shortcuts to good meals. Is there a Trader Joe’s near you? If so, hie thee hence. For instance, they’ve got a bunch of frozen stir-fry meals (which are wondrously healthy, being mostly veggies, with some chicken or shrimp or lean beef) that are devastatingly fast to prepare - and preparation involves just one big skillet and a spatula. (And a pan to cook rice in, if you’re going to have your stir-fry over rice.)

A lot of other, more high-end groceries, are also providing various easy-to-cook entrees, if you don’t have a TJ’s.

[Leaffan]

Sounds like this has been resolved, but as a point of reference it is common for me to get out of doing household chores while immersed in the middle of a project. By this I mean while I am actually physically working. After I’ve finished doing what I need to do I am still pulling my weight regarding chores.

My wife went back to work about a year ago since the kids were 7 and 9 at the time. Since then here’s what I do:

• Get them out of bed in the morning. (Wife starts earlier than I.)
• Make their breakfast.
• Make their lunches and snacks for school.
• Get them out the door on time for the bus.
• Make my lunch.
• Clean up the kitchen. (Which is basically filling the dishwasher and wiping the counters.)
• Make the beds, all three.
• Put the dog out: bring her in and leave for work.

I usually don’t make supper on work nights, except for Tuesdays when it’s just the “men” at home. I usually do make supper on Saturdays and Sundays, and clean up afterwards. Yesterday I also made a pot of chili for my wife to take to work for a pot luck tomorrow.

I am the one who cleans the bathrooms and occasionally I vacuum. Sometimes I do some laundry, but have been told to stay away from it! (After the shrinking sweater episode of 1995.)

I’m the one who walks the dog at night. I round up and take out the garbage every Tuesday morning.

I iron my own shirts.

I do all the outside work including lawn, garden, snow, and since last summer the new pool maintenance. Plus I maintain and repair the cars, etc.

My wife makes supper on nights not mentioned, plus she does the bulk of laundry and general tidiness. She responsible for the bills. (Which is why I’m always broke, but that’s another thread.)

Overall I’d say it’s pretty damed equitable chez nous.

[enigm4tic]

Just a point of curiosity.

Did you have some sort of routine ever established before renovations began? Or did this set of renovations and arguments begin later? How much coexisting (obviously not “living together” but I’m sure there were weekends or even weeks together) did you do prior to being married?

I dated a girl seriously for a while, and even though we didn’t live together, she cooked dinner regularly for us, and it was understood that I’d wash dishes. Was there ever any status quo ante that you could maybe go back to and reference to help the ship regain keel?

[Rubystreak]

@enigm4tic

Did you have some sort of routine ever established before renovations began? Or did this set of renovations and arguments begin later? How much coexisting (obviously not “living together” but I’m sure there were weekends or even weeks together) did you do prior to being married?

We did not share chores before we were married. If we cooked at my house, I cleaned up. If I (or much more rarely, he) cooked at his house, he cleaned up. We did separate laundry and housecleaning, and he did not do any work on my house, inside or out. He literally did not move in until the weekend we got married. It was all separate.

[enigm4tic]

@Rubystreak

We did not share chores before we were married. If we cooked at my house, I cleaned up. If I (or much more rarely, he) cooked at his house, he cleaned up. We did separate laundry and housecleaning, and he did not do any work on my house, inside or out. He literally did not move in until the weekend we got married. It was all separate.

hmm, well, I guess late is better than never.

Although IANMarried, it seems odd to me that you got 3-4 months in to a marriage before suddenly realizing chore division would be an issue. I’d suggest if there are further discussions you approach it in the context of “we probably should have this discussion earlier, but…”
I’m with the posters who say that if the renovations are actually consuming a good portion of his daily free time, than I can see his argument. From your description it sounds MUCH more like an enjoyable free time hobby than “chores”. Also in agreement with those who think joint chores would be good, especially grocery shopping gives the two of you a great chance to talk and hang out (my ex and I did this together too).

And as a side note, several of the people in the thread seemed unnecessarily pessimistic, ranging from “sounds bitter” to “predicting outright catastrophe”. I don’t see why it seems from this thread that anything is particularly out of hand: even after being married the point of a relationship is communication and continuing development, please don’t treat a hiccup like a death rattle!

[Rubystreak]

@enigm4tic

I’m with the posters who say that if the renovations are actually consuming a good portion of his daily free time, than I can see his argument. From your description it sounds MUCH more like an enjoyable free time hobby than “chores”.

Sometimes he works on it for a half an hour or an hour on a weekday; on weekends, it can be up to 8 hours. He likes doing it but of course he’d rather be relaxing or whatever. I don’t expect him to do any chores on the days he works on it for 8 hours, and he hasn’t.

especially grocery shopping gives the two of you a great chance to talk and hang out (my ex and I did this together too).

He despises grocery shopping and never did it for himself. I’m not in love with it either, I find it stressful but he is just terrible at it.

And as a side note, several of the people in the thread seemed unnecessarily pessimistic, ranging from “sounds bitter” to “predicting outright catastrophe”. I don’t see why it seems from this thread that anything is particularly out of hand: even after being married the point of a relationship is communication and continuing development, please don’t treat a hiccup like a death rattle!

Thank you for saying that. I’ve been feeling very negative about things lately, and it’s nice to hear that it’s going to be OK.

[enigm4tic]

@Rubystreak

Sometimes he works on it for a half an hour or an hour on a weekday; on weekends, it can be up to 8 hours. He likes doing it but of course he’d rather be relaxing or whatever. I don’t expect him to do any chores on the days he works on it for 8 hours, and he hasn’t.

You said earlier that he cleans up his work areas after doing the renovation work for the day, maybe you can incorporate daily trash duties in to that (and depending on “whose” pets they are, the litterbox?)

@Rubystreak

Thank you for saying that. I’ve been feeling very negative about things lately, and it’s nice to hear that it’s going to be OK.

Maybe i was raised funny, but I hear this marriage thing is supposed to last
I also hear that you don’t magically find somebody who fits in to your life like a jigsaw puzzle piece, you kinda have to mold the edges together for a while to make sure it fits right. Definitely stay positive, and keep it positive with the husband too, make sure both of you understand that it isn’t a relationship-ending issue, it’s something 99% of couples go through upon moving in together.

Actually, while I’m typing anyways, maybe if it really seems rocky, make a point of going out and doing some of those things that you did while dating and engaged that made it seem like such a great idea to get married, just to put context in to the comparatively trivial problem of deciding who takes out the garbage.

[TroubleAgain]

Rubystreak, “discussions” about chores were probably the worst part of my entire first couple of years of marriage. But you keep discussing, and negotiating, and compromising and adapting until you make it work. We’ve been married almost 14 years, and we still “discuss” it sometimes. But overall, we get through it, and while I still probalby do 90% of the work, he’s taken on some of the ones I just really hate doing.

I shop, he unloads the car.
I cook, he empties the dishwasher, which I HATE. I fill it.
I tidy. He vacuums,which I HATE.
He does the cars, which I HATE.
I mow with the riding mower, he does the push mower and weed-eating.
I do the laundry, but he’ll help if I ask him (except folding whites, which he HATES).
I pay the bills, and he doesn’t bitch if I tell him we’re broke this week.

See? And if he’s doing a big chore around the house, like cleaning out the garage, I do whatever else needs doing until he’s done. But we do most home-improvement projects together, so he doesn’t get a free pass on housework, either, even if he’s worked on a project all day, because I was working on it, too, and am probably just as tired as he is.

[overlyverbose]

@enigm4tic

And as a side note, several of the people in the thread seemed unnecessarily pessimistic, ranging from “sounds bitter” to “predicting outright catastrophe”. I don’t see why it seems from this thread that anything is particularly out of hand: even after being married the point of a relationship is communication and continuing development, please don’t treat a hiccup like a death rattle!

I agree with this wholeheartedly! The most frequent thing my husband and I argue over is division of labor within the household. We’ve been married three years and have a kid now, so there’s even more labor to divide because there’s one more person making a mess. As a compromise, we decided to set the timer. In addition to teaching our kid to clean up his messes when he’s awake, once he’s asleep, my husband and I each have to clean for at least 25 minutes a night. If one or the other or both are feeling particularly inspired, we can go longer, but 25 minutes is the minimum.

That way we spend collectively about an hour on the interior of the house each day, which makes a drastic difference and reduces any tension. Plus, it’s a lot harder to argue with a clock than it is another person.

As for outside, I do any necessary yardwork on the weekends usually, most often taking our son outside with me to “help.” But I enjoy yardwork and it serves a triple purpose: the yard is cleaned, I get some upper body exercise usually and our son gets to run around.

Anyway, my point is that, in my experience, housework is often a very contentious subject within a marriage and that it’s important that both parties work together to find a compromise. But it’s by no means a dealbreaker, and your compromise will change the longer you’re married based on whatever situation you find yourself in at the time.

[beanpod]

I’m glad you talked it over with him. I didn’t think it was fair, and I wouldn’t be happy with a set up like that, either. Glad he just didn’t know how much it bothered you. Things like this are the biggest arguments in my house, too. Chores and money. Seems like no matter who I talk to about relationships, there always tends to be one person who wants things cleaner and one person who wants to save more money.

We’ve worked things out so that it’s split up by rooms. He’s got the dining room and bedroom, I’ve got the kitchen and bathroom. I start the laundry, he folds it and puts it away. I grocery shop and cook, he takes out the garbage. I clean the toilet, but he sorts the drifts of mail that accumulate on the table. I sweep and mop, he vaccums. He cleans out the gerbil cage, I feed them. (The living room is my brother-in-law’s, since he’s living with us right now.)

It works out generally, but there’s still issues. Of course, I want a spot clean nightly (dishes rounded up and put in the sink or dishwasher, stray papers stacked neatly, trash thrown away, books on shelves) with a quick sweep/dust/windex weekly and maybe a major dust bunny eviction every couple months. He wants to leave it until it “bothers” him and then do a massive cleaning. My husband cleans like a champ, I’ll give him that, but he doesn’t really motivate himself to do anything but major cleaning. But these only last for a few days.

I also think I need the phrase “Cleaning oppresses my soul,” embroidered on some oven mitts or an apron.