# Opinion on IBM OS/390 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618 "2006-04-28T17:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/1 "2006-04-28T17:01:08Z")
I fully expect this thread to drop like a rock, but here goes: How hard is it to program some simple little things in IBM’s OS/390? I work on a OS/390 mainframe and we have programmed some things in the past. Is it worth the trouble to throw a few batch command programs together? I guess I should qualify that I am not a programmer in anything, but am pretty damn savvy as far as computers go. Thanks guys, ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/2 "2006-04-28T17:06:47Z")
Program what specifically? Are you talking system level O/S type utilities usind CLIST or REXX or JCL or Assembler routines or CICS? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/3 "2006-04-28T17:14:25Z")
In general, I would say it’s not so easy. Most of the languages(some were mentioned by **QuickSilver** ) that can do OS programming are not the friendliest in the world. They were designed for systems programmers. As an applications programmer, I have dabbled in REXX and CLIST, but for anything complicated, I have to rely on the systems programmers. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/4 "2006-04-28T18:14:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Program what specifically? > > Are you talking system level O/S type utilities usind CLIST or REXX or JCL or Assembler routines or CICS? I use CICS and run JCL jobs, but I was wanting to program a batch command more in TSO (Time Sharing Operation???) We have forgotten almost everything’s full name… ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/5 "2006-04-28T18:23:53Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > In general, I would say it’s not so easy. Most of the languages(some were mentioned by **QuickSilver** ) that can do OS programming are not the friendliest in the world. They were designed for systems programmers. As an applications programmer, I have dabbled in REXX and CLIST, but for anything complicated, I have to rely on the systems programmers. I pick this stuff up pretty easy. I will give you the fact that text based systems are not the most intuitive, but I actually prefer typing out commands like in DOS 5.2 and such rather than click here and do that… I do manipulate some datasets that I have created. I have found that the ;help status command will bring up lists of general commands and such but over the years the systems people have given maintenance of the system to a third party company, and they have managed to delete most of the help and error explanation panels so that they could consolidate our contract with another contract on the same server. They got in trouble for this because we are a federal gov. operation, and they gave us a single server again, but they didn’t restore the rest of the application. I asked a few of the people that orginally programmed some of the applications in the 70’s, and they said that the company didn’t delete the instruction panels for some security reason. My sup’s are all for me trying to figure out how to generate a few commands because there is no one left here that can remember any programming. Everyone thinks I am a dork, but I find this stuff really interesting. Also, if I can consolidate some of these searches and whatnot, I will have more time for the Dope… Thanks for the help, **QuickSliver** and **Crotalus**. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/6 "2006-04-28T18:38:39Z")
TSO is also known as ISPF, so you may want to google for TSO/ISPF commands. And if you’re using JCL, the odds are VERY good that there are some old library’s on your system. Back when I was a Batch Monitor, I found that looking at the old job code helped me figure out what the heck I was doing. Not that I needed anything beyond increasing diskspace, or plugging in a restart-card, but still. Also, I bet there are a ton of books sitting around collecting dust. I’ll see if I’ve got anything laying around after my great MBS purge when I got laid off. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/7 "2006-04-28T18:47:28Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > TSO is also known as ISPF, so you may want to google for TSO/ISPF commands. > > And if you’re using JCL, the odds are VERY good that there are some old library’s on your system. Back when I was a Batch Monitor, I found that looking at the old job code helped me figure out what the heck I was doing. > > Not that I needed anything beyond increasing diskspace, or plugging in a restart-card, but still. > > Also, I bet there are a ton of books sitting around collecting dust. I’ll see if I’ve got anything laying around after my great MBS purge when I got laid off. Sweet… thanks. When CSC deleted a lot of the explanation panels, they didn’t seal up the code so if you stumble into one of those, you get a hex error… and it does bring you to the general ISPF error screen. I should have picked that up. You dude(ettes) are so smart… ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/8 "2006-04-28T18:59:35Z")
Well, with CICS being your on-line environment and JCL is batch/background jobs, tooling around with ISPF/TSO (BTW… TSO = Time Share Option) will give you the ability to create some screens for migrating through MVS/TSO as well as create some custom menues to get to key applications like SDSF and FileAid and QMF, etc… Still not sure what specifically you are trying to code. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/9 "2006-04-28T19:20:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, with CICS being your on-line environment and JCL is batch/background jobs, tooling around with ISPF/TSO (BTW… TSO = Time Share Option) will give you the ability to create some screens for migrating through MVS/TSO as well as create some custom menues to get to key applications like SDSF and FileAid and QMF, etc… > > Still not sure what specifically you are trying to code. ## I really want to code a screen that I can enter and have it look like this: Danny’s Spiffy TSO Infomanager Search Screen ===\> (select 1 - 9 ) (panel name of D’STSOISS) 1. Search A 2. Search B so on and so on. I am going to check out and see how some of these simple screens that I have found using **Tristan** ’s idea and see if I can backwards engineer them to do what I want. If I don’t find what I am looking for in the old obsolete panels, how hard of a programming job do you think the ‘spiffy’ screen will be? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/10 "2006-04-28T19:35:16Z")
I think you’ll have to dig deep into [ISPF dialogues](http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/s390/os390/bkserv/r10pdf/ispf.html) and [TSO command language](http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/s390/os390/bkserv/r10pdf/tsoe.html). However, it’s not going to be as difficult as learning to code a JCL steam. It’s been a number of years since I worked with OS/390/MVS and all this stuff. It was the highlight of my IT career but I’m quite rusty at it now. Thanks for bringing up some fond memories though. Good luck. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/11 "2006-05-01T16:03:11Z")
Turns out my MVS and JCL books were left at the ex-wifes when I moved out, and she has since tossed them out. Sorry dude. I’m glad you were able to find some stuff. I wish I could be more help, but raw coding (which is what it sound like you’re hoping to do) was a bit beyond what I did. Sounds cool though! ---
**Author:** ![cantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6f9a4e/32.png) [@cantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cantara)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/12 "2006-05-01T16:11:53Z")
I don’t have a direct answer, as my exposure to Spiffy has been limited. What I have done with it is very useful (love the plist). Here are a some links that you may find helpful… [Mainframe Manuals](http://www.mainframes.com/books.htm) [MVS Forums](http://www.mvsforums.com/) [IBM Forums](http://ibmmainframes.com/index.php) \<-actual IBM mainframe programmers answer questions here. I found this invaluable when I was using DFSORT last year… ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-ibm-os-390/354618/13 "2006-05-01T17:02:36Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > However, it’s not going to be as difficult as learning to code a JCL steam. One of my favorite quotes back when I did mainframe programming came from a teacher who had just shown us the JCL for something and he said: “I think only one person ever learned JCL and the rest of us have been copying it ever since.”