# opinion on relationship boundaries **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990 "2014-06-30T11:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/101 "2014-07-01T13:00:16Z")
> [@sjmesf](#): > > Many are implying that not only myself but the roughly 50% that agreed with me are totally out to lunch and basically socially retarded. No one implied that, though you may well have inferred it. You have a habit of taking what is said and stretching it waaaaaayyyy out of context. I can’t help but wonder if you are doing this with the whole situation. > [@sjmesf](#): > > It’s almost like all bars are also swingers club! > [@sjmesf](#): > > It’s like some folks are seeing life as some big rave where we all just need to commune and meet all these special random people. > [@sjmesf](#): > > People now are taught that anything they want to do is okay so long as it doesn’t hurt a traditionally victimized group, is not a hate crime, and does not denigrate their spirit animal…I have a bunch of folks informing me that basically people should be able to do whatever they’d like in a relationship (short of genital contact) and you should be okay with it because otherwise you are some list of bad words like controlling. > [@sjmesf](#): > > Have your ex s not understood when you crashed on a different random person’s couch every weekend because you were trying to be responsible and not drive after drinking enough to float a battleship and basking in attention all night? > > Just seems you have a real issue here. That’s just from the last handful of your posts. No one, at any point, said ANY of those things. That pattern, though, does say a lot about why you are so upset about this girl talking to another guy. There are basically 2 types of people; those who find validation within themselves and those who look externally for validation. You seem to be the latter while she is the former. Have you worked out this issue with her yet? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mask\_behind\_the\_Mask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@The\_Mask\_behind\_the\_Mask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mask_behind_the_Mask)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/102 "2014-07-01T13:16:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I also think she should have been scanning the room periodically to see if you were enjoying yourself. Usually friends and spouses are invested in each other’s emotions that way. If she not only became oblivious to you but indifferent to you, then that is something worth noting. I feel the same way. I figure, if I’m out with someone, whether a friend or someone closer, I’d have them in my mind the entire time. After all, isn’t that more or less the point of us going out together? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/103 "2014-07-01T13:20:39Z")
> [@The\_Mask\_behind\_the\_Mask](#): > > I feel the same way. I figure, if I’m out with someone, whether a friend or someone closer, I’d have them in my mind the entire time. After all, isn’t that more or less the point of us going out together? 😃 Not when you’re very busy trying to prove to everyone on the internet how independent, emotionally secure and intellectually evolved you are. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/104 "2014-07-01T15:13:43Z")
> [@The\_Mask\_behind\_the\_Mask](#): > > I feel the same way. I figure, if I’m out with someone, whether a friend or someone closer, I’d have them in my mind the entire time. After all, isn’t that more or less the point of us going out together? 😃 Yeah, sure. You go to a restaurant, a movie, a concert. You get coffee, ice cream, etc. those are all couples activities. You expect that your date won’t wander off for an hour with a guy she bumped into. However a bar? A bar isn’t that kind of a place. Neither is a house party. Especially if you’re going to be spending more than an hour there. Those kinds of venues are more casual and flexible. You don’t expect that you’re going to get that kind of focused attention. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/105 "2014-07-01T15:32:57Z")
I don’t get why she wouldn’t invite the bloke to the table with everyone else. I think that is what strikes me as more off than anything else. Yes, a bar is place where people mingle. Yes, it’s a casual environment with relaxed social rules. But if 1) you go to a bar as part of a crew and 2) your boyfriend is there, it’s a stretch to automatically assume that breaking away from them for an hour to go talk to some other dude won’t raise an eyebrow. At a minimum, it sends the message that you’d rather have a private thing than partake in a group activity. The fact that the OP’s friends also commented negatively on her behavior suggests she was acting in contravention to the group’s expectations, which means she was not only ignoring her bf’s nonverbal communication but also her friends’. Every time I’ve gone out with a group, the assumption has been “the more the merrier”. Meaning, if you’re looking to mingle and interact with others in addition to your friends, you invite them to the cabana/table/beach towel/tent to hang out with everyone. It’s okay to disappear for a few minutes to chat with a bro here and there, but you always return to the fold. Deviating from this makes the experience less enjoyable for your friends because they are always going to be more interested in hanging out with _you_ than a bunch of strangers. If she was talking to another woman, the whole not inviting her over to sit with the gang would still be weird (to me), but at least the appearance of romantic impropriety is absent. So with a dude, she should have been extra sensitive to her bf’s feelings. Even if she knew everything was on the up-and-up and trusted him to know her intentions were good, that doesn’t excuse her failure to introduce his friend to her bf. That’s just good manners. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/106 "2014-07-01T16:12:31Z")
Well most of my position is anchored on the situation as the OP described. It didn’t/doesn’t sound like a date but more of loose gathering at the local watering whole. In my head I see it loosely like the bar scenes in HIMYM. I still maintain the woman was rude and self-absorbed but I just can’t go further than that without the ability to jump into her head. Maybe his group was boring, maybe the OPS buddies roll their eyes whenever a discussion of Dr. Who comes up. Maybe she’s rethinking here behavior right now and plans to apologize later. I can’t ascribe bad motives to her without bringing my own shit into it. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/107 "2014-07-01T17:55:40Z")
> [@sjmesf](#): > > Why are you SO into this thread Kaio? > > It’s almost like it triggered something in you and you just have to set me right by posting like 20 times in a short period. > > Have your ex s not understood when you crashed on a different random person’s couch every weekend because you were trying to be responsible and not drive after drinking enough to float a battleship and basking in attention all night? > > Just seems you have a real issue here. I love how you accuse people calling you names while disagreeing with you and then proceed to do the same thing yourself. Also interesting that you’re focusing on me to the exclusion of the men who are telling you the same thing, almost as if you have issues with women. Did I “trigger” something there? :rolleyes: I DO have a real issue with men treating women like property, which is what you are doing. Behaving in such a controlling manner is a VERY short trip to becoming abusive, and yes, I have witnessed such things personally, so you bet I am calling you out on it. We live in a world where Elliot Rodger happened, and these attitudes and presumptions about a woman’s “place” and the idea that men are entitled to women’s attention (see also: street harassment) are exactly why. This is your opportunity to engage in some genuine, critical introspection about your own attitudes. I sincerely hope you take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![thenonepercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@thenonepercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thenonepercent)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/108 "2014-07-01T18:06:13Z")
Look OP the solution is simple: Stop being insecure. If you don’t trust your lady to talk to men without wanting to bang them, then break up with her and buy a fleshlight and strap it to a furby. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/109 "2014-07-01T18:07:02Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > I love how you accuse people calling you names while disagreeing with you and then proceed to do the same thing yourself. Also interesting that you’re focusing on me to the exclusion of the men who are telling you the same thing, almost as if you have issues with women. Did I “trigger” something there? :rolleyes: > > I DO have a real issue with men treating women like property, which is what you are doing. Behaving in such a controlling manner is a VERY short trip to becoming abusive, and yes, I have witnessed such things personally, so you bet I am calling you out on it. We live in a world where Elliot Rodger happened, and these attitudes and presumptions about a woman’s “place” and the idea that men are entitled to women’s attention (see also: street harassment) are exactly why. > > This is your opportunity to engage in some genuine, critical introspection about your own attitudes. I sincerely hope you take it seriously. What the hell are you talking about? The OP showed no indications of abusive behavior and you started your first post by calling him a 12-year-old. I think there is room all around for introspection. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/110 "2014-07-01T18:41:26Z")
@Stringbean: at the risk of repeating myself, controlling behavior is one of the first very big red flags for later abusive behavior. This is pretty much common knowledge, and you can find guides for these red flag behaviors online on the site of any domestic abuse support/safety organization you care to google. And in this case, his behavior was SO controlling that he was: 1\> watching her constantly from across the room for over an hour 2\> only came over to her and her friend to assert possession over her, and NOT to join the conversation 3\> asked her to terminate her conversation so she could leave with him for, apparently, the sole purpose of getting her away from her friend He also asserts she had no right to act like an independent agent and have a fan conversation with a friend, because it’s all about him, you know – he asserts that her behavior was _inappropriate_. He seems convinced that she’s incapable (or unwilling) to say no to inappropriate advances without a chaperone, or a big I AM SOME OTHER MAN’S PROPERTY sign. On that note, apparently it would have been less of an issue if her friend were a women… because I guess women are never inclined to ask another woman out, or something. And I’ll just point out that #3 looks an awful lot like acting to isolate her – absent fuller context and motivation, none of us can know – and regardless, he certainly let us know that he wanted to. If you can’t see the potential paths where this is leading, I suggest you do a lot more reading of current events. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/111 "2014-07-01T18:58:24Z")
Sounds to me like insecure behavior. Controlling behavior would be forcing her to act outside of her will, which is in fact the opposite of what he did. He sat there for an hour while she neglected him to talk with another guy alone, then brought up his displeasure after the fact. My guess is if you went to any normal club on a Friday night, you would be seeing a lot of this so-called controlling behavior. Let me finish by saying that I am absolutely 100% against physically and emotionally abusive men. I’ve seen plenty, and they don’t act and sound like the OP. He’s just upset that his girlfriend doesn’t really like him and she showed it through her neglect. She did act inappropriate, in my opinion, and that has nothing to do with wanting to svengali her. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/112 "2014-07-01T19:14:29Z")
If I did that to my date (went off an an hour-long conversation with some woman I barely know), I’d expect her to be rightfully pissed at me. Yes, even at the bar, and I have spent huge swaths of my life inside various ones. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/113 "2014-07-01T19:33:01Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > @Stringbean: at the risk of repeating myself, controlling behavior is one of the first very big red flags for later abusive behavior. This is pretty much common knowledge, and you can find guides for these red flag behaviors online on the site of any domestic abuse support/safety organization you care to google. > > And in this case, his behavior was SO controlling that he was: > > 1\> watching her constantly from across the room for over an hour > 2\> only came over to her and her friend to assert possession over her, and NOT to join the conversation > 3\> asked her to terminate her conversation so she could leave with him for, apparently, the sole purpose of getting her away from her friend > > He also asserts she had no right to act like an independent agent and have a fan conversation with a friend, because it’s all about him, you know – he asserts that her behavior was _inappropriate_. He seems convinced that she’s incapable (or unwilling) to say no to inappropriate advances without a chaperone, or a big I AM SOME OTHER MAN’S PROPERTY sign. On that note, apparently it would have been less of an issue if her friend were a women… because I guess women are never inclined to ask another woman out, or something. And I’ll just point out that #3 looks an awful lot like acting to isolate her – absent fuller context and motivation, none of us can know – and regardless, he certainly let us know that he wanted to. > > If you can’t see the potential paths where this is leading, I suggest you do a lot more reading of current events. WTF? You need to get over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/114 "2014-07-01T20:07:59Z")
As is often the case, I agree with you with the face. Going off during an outing to talk for an hour with another person would strike me as weird. Not necessarily deal-breaker weird, but weird. It’s not how I expect people to behave and it would strike me as odd. The bar setting really doesn’t change that, for me. If I am dating someone and I go with them somewhere, I am invested in them and aware of them for that time. That, to me, is what going out with someone means. If it’s a party or an event where we are mixing, it would mean at least touching base every little while. Like with most relationship things, really, it’s all a matter of what the people in the relationship can and can’t live with or agree to. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/115 "2014-07-01T20:09:11Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > @Stringbean: at the risk of repeating myself, controlling behavior is one of the first very big red flags for later abusive behavior. This is pretty much common knowledge, and you can find guides for these red flag behaviors online on the site of any domestic abuse support/safety organization you care to google. Being upset with her seeing friends when they are not on dates would be controlling. Running over to the table and pulling her away would be controlling. Being upset at her rudeness is not controlling. If a friend and not a gf did this it would still be rude, as others have said. > [@](#): > > And in this case, his behavior was SO controlling that he was: > > 1\> watching her constantly from across the room for over an hour Looking over every five minutes is not watching constantly. I know what he said about checking for contact is a bit untrusting, but on the other hand maybe she could have remembered he existed and called him over sometime during that period. > [@](#): > > 2\> only came over to her and her friend to assert possession over her, and NOT to join the conversation Forcing himself into a place where he is clearly not wanted is not controlling? She should have invited him to sit down. They guy should have also, but that might be a bit much to ask for. And she should have invited the guy to talk with the friends. Maybe the conversation would get more general, that’s not a tragedy. > [@](#): > > 3\> asked her to terminate her conversation so she could leave with him for, apparently, the sole purpose of getting her away from her friend It was 3 1/2 hours after they arrived. Maybe it was time to go? Or would it be less controlling for him to split without her? > [@](#): > > He also asserts she had no right to act like an independent agent and have a fan conversation with a friend, because it’s all about him, you know – he asserts that her behavior was _inappropriate_. He seems convinced that she’s incapable (or unwilling) to say no to inappropriate advances without a chaperone, or a big I AM SOME OTHER MAN’S PROPERTY sign. On that note, apparently it would have been less of an issue if her friend were a women… because I guess women are never inclined to ask another woman out, or something. And I’ll just point out that #3 looks an awful lot like acting to isolate her – absent fuller context and motivation, none of us can know – and regardless, he certainly let us know that he wanted to. After only seven weeks, I see very little sexual jealousy in his posts. And I guess going out to a bar with a bunch of friends is the new definition of isolation. Yep, being upset by being dumped by her on an evening out with friends is just one small step from tying her to the bed. :rolleyes: I also agree what others have said about the difference relationship status makes. Married couples get seated apart at dinner parties for a reason. Spouses circulate independently at parties. After seven weeks, though, I’d expect a bit more attention to ones date. In that situation I’d probably plunk myself down at the table, uninvited, and been an asshole by injecting myself in the conversation. That’s far more controlling than what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/116 "2014-07-01T20:11:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > As is often the case, I agree with you with the face. > > Going off during an outing to talk for an hour with another person would strike me as weird. Not necessarily deal-breaker weird, but weird. It’s not how I expect people to behave and it would strike me as odd. The bar setting really doesn’t change that, for me. If I am dating someone and I go with them somewhere, I am invested in them and aware of them for that time. That, to me, is what going out with someone means. If it’s a party or an event where we are mixing, it would mean at least touching base every little while. > > Like with most relationship things, really, it’s all a matter of what the people in the relationship can and can’t live with or agree to. I agree also. It is rude not just to him but to their other friends. It is weird that she didn’t invite him over to their table/area. It is not a good sign for the future of the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/117 "2014-07-01T21:44:40Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Let me finish by saying that I am absolutely 100% against physically and emotionally abusive men. I’ve seen plenty, and they don’t act and sound like the OP. He’s just upset that his girlfriend doesn’t really like him and she showed it through her neglect. She did act inappropriate, in my opinion, and that has nothing to do with wanting to svengali her. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/118 "2014-07-01T22:30:46Z")
> [@sjmesf](#): > > I think you might be trolling me anyways. You’re new here, so it’s possible you didn’t know yet, but accusing others of trolling in any forum other than the BBQ Pit is against the rules here. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/119 "2014-07-01T23:06:30Z")
> [@jayrey](#): > > Is this a commom bar experience/expectation? Although I admit it was a thousand years ago, whenever I went with a date to a bar, it was to spend some time together, maybe hang with some friends (not strangers), shoot pool, have few drinks and maybe a snack. I never went wandering off and entered into random conversations with strangers. I’ve never had a random encounter in a bar. Maybe I’m ugly and people don’t approach me, though. I don’t go out a lot, but I’ve been to bars/clubs with dates and groups of friend or co-workers and don’t think I’ve ever spoken to a person I didn’t previously know. I thought the one comment about bars about being all about random encounters to be interesting. I guess it’s a function of personality type, and just like relationship expectations and boundaries, there’s no such thing as everyone being the same. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990/120 "2014-07-01T23:20:23Z")
These things are based on personal preferences. You have to decide for yourself where your boundaries are, but you also have to communicate them. In other words, she may have done something that you consider inappropriate, but she has no way to assume that. If you aren’t compatible, this is a perfect time to find out. A lot of people don’t find these things out until several years and kids into a relationship. It’s not “wrong” for either of you to feel the way you do, but you have to be on the same page to have a relationship. Personally, I would feel the same way. It’s not really about being jealous or what the topic of conversation was about. To me, it would seem like my GF is giving her attention and having an intimate conversation with a single guy in a pickup environment. And placing her interest in that guy above me. Sure, she is free to talk to people and have friends. And she is capable of rejecting his advances, if it comes to that. And I guess she is free to leave with him, if she wants. But that doesn’t mean I have to remain in a relationship with that person. I’m sure people have encounters like this all the time that are “innocent,” but I think it’s naive to be completely trusting and permissive with no boundaries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinion-on-relationship-boundaries/691990.md?page=7)