# Opinions...2nd try
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 19, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795 "2011-09-19T05:57:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 12
### Author:  [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/221 "2011-09-25T00:35:41Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#):
>
> I would say “forcing someone to be an unwilling participant in your sexlife” is most certainly “sexual abuse”.
If I walk into a room and start talking about how last night I jerked off on my girlfriend’s face while I made her sing the national anthem, that would be making the other people in earshot unwilling participants in my sex life. I hardly think it would be sexual abuse. Stop misrepresenting what other people say, it does not bolster your position.
Wear the shirt if you want. But don’t try to argue that it’s not a douchebag thing to wear in public, because it is. You’re not fighting ignorance, you’re just talking about your penis in public.
---
### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/222 "2011-09-25T00:36:56Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#):
>
> If I walk into a room and start talking about how last night I jerked off on my girlfriend’s face while I made her sing the national anthem, that would be making the other people in earshot unwilling participants in my sex life. I hardly think it would be sexual abuse. Stop misrepresenting what other people say, it does not bolster your position.
>
> Wear the shirt if you want. But don’t try to argue that it’s not a douchebag thing to wear in public, because it is. You’re not fighting ignorance, you’re just talking about your penis in public.
…says you.
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### Author:  [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/223 "2011-09-25T00:42:18Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#):
>
> …says you.
Devastating comeback. My argument is shattered.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/224 "2011-09-25T00:48:56Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#):
>
> Devastating comeback. My argument is shattered.
Well all you did was give your opinion. “Sexual abuse” vs “forcing someone to participate in your sexlife” and there semantic differences can be argued all day/night.
And the overall public reaction to the tshirt has been very positive, with (surprisingly) the most positive comments (as in highest number) coming from older women.
And I think the message is kinda clever, because it not only can be interpreted for the obvious, but it can also be read as “Don’t worry, my _sense of humor_ still works” (even **if** other stuff doesn’t).
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### Author:  [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/225 "2011-09-25T03:27:19Z")
Oh god the tan. The _tan_. Your first pic is great, but the bodybuilding ones with the extreme tan? It isn’t just you, I hate that tan on everyone.
But without the tan? A++ would look at again! Several times!
Also, I wonder how much cologne and aftershave you go through in a month? I stay as far away as possible from private gyms (ie., not the Y or a university) but I’ve had to work with gym owners and the smell lingers for hours.
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/226 "2011-09-25T03:53:57Z")
As has been explained _several_ times already in this thread, the tan is specifically for being on the bodybuilding stage; it’s meant to bring out the muscle definition more clearly. It is not a real tan, it’s a lotion that is applied to the skin and which wears off eventually. It is not permanent!
I do think modern bodybuilders abuse the tanning lotion. The _Pumping Iron_ era guys tanned very sparingly - actual tanning in the sun, not lotion - and some, like Mike Katz and Ken Waller, didn’t tan at all because their skin was too fair. They did use _oil_ on the body to make it _shiny,_ but I don’t think they attempted to make their skin _dark._
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### Author:  [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/227 "2011-09-25T03:56:03Z")
I think you’re an attractive man. I don’t much care for the tan; I think you look better without it. The shirt? Funny - and informative - but I wouldn’t want to go out with a guy wearing it.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/228 "2011-09-25T04:00:10Z")
It wasn’t a tan, it was stage make-up.
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### Author:  [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/229 "2011-09-25T04:10:10Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> As has been explained _several_ times already in this thread, the tan is specifically for being on the bodybuilding stage; it’s meant to bring out the muscle definition more clearly. It is not a real tan, it’s a lotion that is applied to the skin and which wears off eventually. It is not permanent!
Doesn’t make it any easier to look at.
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### Author:  [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/230 "2011-09-25T04:21:29Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#):
>
> And I think the message is kinda clever, because it not only can be interpreted for the obvious, but it can also be read as “Don’t worry, my _sense of humor_ still works” (even **if** other stuff doesn’t).
If there’s one thing you’re known for, it’s your sense of humor.
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/231 "2011-09-25T04:39:26Z")
Jamie, as a heterosexual man, I have to say, you look … average.
Really, you don’t look much different than my buddies. They’re all average guys, and you don’t look any different. I’m talking facial portraits only, mind. And, just as they are, you’ll prove attractive to some ladies, and unattractive to others. But that’s life–trust me; I’ve caused many women to run away screaming. 🙂
Just in case you didn’t know, you can ask Arnold to post your photo in the SDMB Gallery–see the sticky at the top of the MPSIMS forum. That may be easier for SDMB members to look at, rather than deal with Facebook and AOL requirements.
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/232 "2011-09-25T04:55:21Z")
Heterosexual guys tend to be horrible at judging the faces of other guys. Jamie - totally regardless of _anything_ he has posted, any aspects of his personality, his wheelchair, or anything else about what kind of a man he is - has a face with more or less perfectly symmetrical proportions - the so-called “golden average”.
His facial expression in his pictures is _not_ doing him any favors, and neither is the repeated series of self-taken portraits with said expression.
And unless he’s Brian Peppers or Bobby Peru, a guy’s face will ultimately play very little role in his attractiveness to women, if he has other things about him that are desirable.
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### Author:  [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/233 "2011-09-25T05:04:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> And unless he’s Brian Peppers or Bobby Peru, a guy’s face will ultimately play very little role in his attractiveness to women, if he has other things about him that are desirable.
You did read his shirt, right?
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### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/234 "2011-09-25T06:18:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> And unless he’s Brian Peppers or Bobby Peru, a guy’s face will ultimately play very little role in his attractiveness to women, if he has other things about him that are desirable.
Can you please clarify what you’re saying here? Because I say, to the extent that women care about physical appearance, the face is the most important part. So I’m not sure if you’re saying women don’t weigh physical appearance much, unless the guy is hideously ugly, or if you’re saying the face makes little impression on a guy’s physical attractiveness unless the face is hideously ugly.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/235 "2011-09-25T06:28:56Z")
> [@kushiel](#):
>
> Oh god the tan. The _tan_. Your first pic is great, but the bodybuilding ones with the extreme tan? It isn’t just you, I hate that tan on everyone.
>
> But without the tan? A++ would look at again! Several times!
>
> Also, I wonder how much cologne and aftershave you go through in a month? I stay as far away as possible from private gyms (ie., not the Y or a university) but I’ve had to work with gym owners and the smell lingers for hours.
??How much cologne and aftershave?? Wha? I don"t get it. 😕 I _definitely_ don’t wear any cologne when I’m working out, if that’s what your getting at. Or was that meant as some gross stereotype of all bodybuilders?
And the tan is meant to be seen _ **on stage** _, under the bright lights at the competition. I _fully agree_ that, in regular circumstances, the look is ridiculous and _anything_ but sexually attractive. I would never, _never_, ever go anywhere outside of a bodybuilding competition looking like that.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/236 "2011-09-25T06:32:24Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#):
>
> I think you’re an attractive man. I don’t much care for the tan; I think you look better without it. The shirt? Funny - and informative - but I wouldn’t want to go out with a guy wearing it.
Oh I’d _never_ wear that out on a date! :eek:
That shirt is strictly a throw-around shirt; I wear it to work-out or when I’m running errands or something.
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### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/237 "2011-09-25T06:32:40Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#):
>
> Can you please clarify what you’re saying here? Because I say, to the extent that women care about physical appearance, the face is the most important part. So I’m not sure if you’re saying women don’t weigh physical appearance much, unless the guy is hideously ugly, or if you’re saying the face makes little impression on a guy’s physical attractiveness unless the face is hideously ugly.
Basically just that a guy’s personality seems to me to matter more to women than his looks. I guess some women care more about the looks, but probably not many. Unless a guy looks like Bobby Peru, he can be plenty attractive to many women if he’s got personal qualities that are appealing.
I’m pretty sure I have clashed with you over our respective ideas about male/female attraction…I don’t want to debate it too much in this thread. And maybe _you_ specifically _really_ place a premium on a guy’s face, but it _seems_ to me that most women don’t. They may _say_ they do, but really it’s the more abstract qualities like confidence, power, social status, humor, knowing the right things to say, etc, that draw them in. Not to say that they can’t _appreciate_ a handsome guy, but it’s not the whole package to them.
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### Author:  [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/238 "2011-09-25T06:33:31Z")
> [@jamiemcgarry](#):
>
> I would never, _never_, ever go anywhere outside of a bodybuilding competition looking like that.
Except for the days leading up to it, right?
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### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/239 "2011-09-25T06:38:39Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#):
>
> Basically just that a guy’s personality seems to me to matter more to women than his looks. I guess some women care more about the looks, but probably not many. Unless a guy looks like Bobby Peru, he can be plenty attractive to many women if he’s got personal qualities that are appealing.
>
> I’m pretty sure I have clashed with you over our respective ideas about male/female attraction…I don’t want to debate it too much in this thread. And maybe _you_ specifically _really_ place a premium on a guy’s face, but it _seems_ to me that most women don’t. They may _say_ they do, but really it’s the more abstract qualities like confidence, power, social status, humor, knowing the right things to say, etc, that draw them in. Not to say that they can’t _appreciate_ a handsome guy, but it’s not the whole package to them.
Heh. When I wanna trash-talk, I’ll trash-talk; I honestly just wanted clarification on what you were saying.
In any case, I value personality over looks any day so long as the looks aren’t distractingly bad, but I’d be a liar if I said I didn’t know shit tons of women who won’t even talk to a man unless he looks a certain way. Folks are shallow, men and women both. In other news, Nick Cage’s acting lacks range.
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### Author:  [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-2nd-try/596795/240 "2011-09-25T06:43:26Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> Except for the days leading up to it, right?
No. I don’t have the DreamTan applied until the morning of the show. THAT is what gives me the crazy, dark, goldish look. The preparations I undergo the two days prior to the show are the base coats of spray tan; that looks no different that what people do all the time at tanning salons. I could do it today and go out and no one would notice it, aside from perhaps thinking I had just returned from vacation.
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