# Opinions and advice about my manager please **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 29, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832 "2014-03-29T13:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/41 "2014-04-01T18:55:47Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > Why is this troubling? Because it might indicate a quid pro quo thing? (Because I guess my first response on reading it was, oh, if he’s cool with her husband being around, he must not be sexually interested…?) Yep, because its a quid pro quo thing - a guy who can get your husband a job at a company can also sink his chances to get a job. And sexual harassers are often very comfortable with the idea of husbands being around - and having them party to the harassment (by holding the strings over a job). A woman whose husband has bought into her harassment makes an ideal victim. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/42 "2014-04-01T18:57:47Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > It does. The standard for sexual harassment is not whether he is interested in boinking her or whether he is trying to boink her. The standard is whether a reasonable (similar) person would feel harassed. (HR, do I get a gold star for remembering my course?) And I think that is the case here. “Reasonable woman” - the courts determined a long time ago that women and men find different things “reasonable” when it comes to this. Men, according to law, don’t get to decide what its reasonable for women to be comfortable with when it comes to sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/43 "2014-04-01T19:00:28Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yep, because its a quid pro quo thing - a guy who can get your husband a job at a company can also sink his chances to get a job. If **Astro** is right, maybe he wants in husband’s pants. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/44 "2014-04-01T19:04:49Z")
Seems like harassment. Unless you’re a stripper - which you’ve said you’re not. Communicate the behavior is unwanted, either directly or up the chain. If it doesn’t stop, proceed to collect from the lawsuit/settlement. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/45 "2014-04-01T19:30:39Z")
> [@astro](#): > > _Personally_ harassed or _sexually_ harassed. There’s a fairly critical distinction here. Lumping together a bunch of annoying makeover suggestions and other behaviors, some of which are directly contradictory to indicating sexual interest (the husband comment) and saying “that’s sexual harassment because I feel uncomfortable about it” is not IMO some kind of gold standard. **Dangerosa** and others have elucidated why the husband comment is not actually contradictory to indicating sexual interest (thanks Dangerosa!) But more to the point, it may not be a gold standard for _you_. I’m saying that “a reasonable similar person [see my note below] would find this creating a hostile environment relating to a protected class” IS a gold standard for the courts, and therefore for a HR department. In my HR course, we were taught that a hostile environment can be created even if, for example, women are talking about their heterosexual exploits to other women, which is obviously not indicating sexual interest in the other women. You may personally think that this is overkill, but… it doesn’t change that it is indeed the standard. For example [see here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_environment_sexual_harassment) > [@Dangerosa](#): > > “Reasonable woman” - the courts determined a long time ago that women and men find different things “reasonable” when it comes to this. Men, according to law, don’t get to decide what its reasonable for women to be comfortable with when it comes to sexual harassment. Yep yep. That’s why I said “similar” person (e.g., a reasonable black person if it’s racial harassment, etc.). And I wasn’t at all clear, so thanks for elucidating that for me. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/46 "2014-04-01T19:43:14Z")
I think the context of the job is relevant. If this was a large corporate setting it would be much more inappropriate than say if the OP was a… waitress. I currently work at a small-ish office setting and something like that doesn’t seem too out of the ordinary. In fact, it’s sometimes solicited. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/47 "2014-04-01T19:57:22Z")
> [@raspberry\_hunter](#): > > Why is this troubling? Because it might indicate a quid pro quo thing? (Because I guess my first response on reading it was, oh, if he’s cool with her husband being around, he must not be sexually interested…?) For me it was the “he knows people” part of the statement - combined with the rest, that just seemed like a “Lookit me! I’m important!” kind of statement, intended to show off or intimidate (if he “knows people” she might not be taken seriously if she tries to complain). ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/48 "2014-04-01T20:27:51Z")
I am friends with a woman who had to deal with very similar behavior from a boss. It escalated into increasingly blatant sexual harassment. He was finally fired over some other inappropriate behavior. Still tried to get her to stay in contact with him after he was fired, though. It’s definitely time to put down firm boundaries with this guy and make sure that HR is aware. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/49 "2014-04-01T20:51:20Z")
I’m reminded of the conversation I had with my boss when I came to him with the bizarre note left on my desk by a coworker. A note which accused me of hating him and being mean to him and making him cry, when I’d been nothing but nice to him. I told my boss that I was scared about my safety. In my thinking, a guy so unhinged is capable of doing anythng, and he had a history of violently blowing up. My boss told me he didn’t get why I would be so afraid. He essentially patted me on the shoulder and told me not to worry my pretty little head. His not getting it led to him keeping the guy around and transferring _me_ to another office. Shortly after, the guy imploded in a scary batshit crazy way. I picked up my stuff and exited stage left. Whenever I hear a man dismissing a woman’s concerns and telling her she’s wrong for feeling a certain way, I can’t help but think of this shitty time in my life. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/50 "2014-04-01T23:43:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m reminded of the conversation I had with my boss when I came to him with the bizarre note left on my desk by a coworker. A note which accused me of hating him and being mean to him and making him cry, when I’d been nothing but nice to him. > > I told my boss that I was scared about my safety. In my thinking, a guy so unhinged is capable of doing anythng, and he had a history of violently blowing up. > > My boss told me he didn’t get why I would be so afraid. He essentially patted me on the shoulder and told me not to worry my pretty little head. His not getting it led to him keeping the guy around and transferring _me_ to another office. Shortly after, the guy imploded in a scary batshit crazy way. I picked up my stuff and exited stage left. > > Whenever I hear a man dismissing a woman’s concerns and telling her she’s wrong for feeling a certain way, I can’t help but think of this shitty time in my life. That’s it; as many people (including me) have said, one comment on my hair wouldn’t set off alarm bells for me (although thinking about it, I wouldn’t like that, either - my hair is just none of any manager’s business). The list that the manager in the OP has done - alarm bells definitely going off. Men don’t get to tell women what does and doesn’t make them uncomfortable. All the women in this thread are adults, and we are used to living our lives much closer to the idea of being a victim than men are. Over time you develop a sense of what decent people do and don’t do; you can’t always necessarily put it into words, but we _know_ when something doesn’t feel right. This manager doesn’t feel right. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/51 "2014-04-01T23:53:29Z")
Regarding the husband thing, if he into her…I’m not saying he is, just IF he is, he may just be trying to meet the husband. Find out if the husband is better looking, taller, stronger etc. It gives him an idea as to whether or not he has a chance with her. Or he’s playing the long game…“If I get him a job, I’ll know when he’s at work and when we can be alone together after we start dating” Or as someone else said, it’s a power thing “look at me, I’m important, but I’m also super nice and I can do you a favor and get your husband a job”. . . . Or he’s just being legitimately nice, but the “I thought we talked about putting your hair up” thing is weird (though I didn’t hear the tone of his voice). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/52 "2014-04-02T01:16:46Z")
> [@astro](#): > > This really isn’t “flirtation” IMO re the OP unless it’s the oddest I’ve seen. He’s acting more like a somewhat domineering queen bee. Specifically he’s doing things re the hair suggestions and appearance shout out you’d expect more out of a female manager. No, actually you wouldn’t expect that from a female manager, because this creepy “Why didn’t you wear your hair up for me the way I asked you to” stuff is neither normal workplace behavior nor normal female behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/53 "2014-04-02T02:06:44Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > No, actually you wouldn’t expect that from a female manager, because this creepy “Why didn’t you wear your hair up for me the way I asked you to” stuff is neither normal workplace behavior nor normal female behavior. Yeah, in 25 years in business, I’ve never had a female coworker, much less a female manager, suggest how I wear my hair. “Cute haircut” or “I like your color.” But women in the workplace have never, in my experience, actually made suggestions on another woman’s appearance, such as “you should wear heels, they make your legs look longer” or “you should wear more blue, it brings out your eyes.” My GIRLFRIENDS don’t offer unsolicited advice to each other on our appearance. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/54 "2014-04-02T21:29:26Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Seconding documenting. His behaviour would make me very uncomfortable - he might just be socially awkward, but he’s making it your problem. I think he’s working his way up to hitting on you, frankly. I also second telling him to stop - that’s one of the rules for workplace sexual harassment, I believe - you need to make it unequivocally clear that the touching and comments need to stop. RE: documenting. Use a spiral bound notebook, and write in pen. It’s harder for him to claim later that you altered it. DON’T make it a computer document. The hair one alone pegs my creep-meter, but the “smile” one is a personal munchkin of mine. Can you hear a man telling another man to smile more? The sum implication is that women have an obligation to be decorative. Back to the hair-- I would have asked if it was a new dress code item, because otherwise, it is none of his business. That question would have forced him to back-pedal, or to say that he just wanted you to look the way he thought you should look, and you can take that to personnel. I thought the bit about the husband might have been feeling out the quality of the marriage. If you said that you didn’t want to spend all day with your husband-- it’d be too much, he could assume you weren’t all that happily married. On the other hand, if you relished the idea of being with your husband all day, as well as all evening and night, then he would have figured you weren’t ripe for picking. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/55 "2014-04-03T01:11:36Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > “Reasonable woman” - the courts determined a long time ago that women and men find different things “reasonable” when it comes to this. Men, according to law, don’t get to decide what its reasonable for women to be comfortable with when it comes to sexual harassment. A sexual harassment trial gets an all-female jury? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832/56 "2014-04-03T01:16:53Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > RE: documenting. Use a spiral bound notebook, and write in pen. It’s harder for him to claim later that you altered it. DON’T make it a computer document.\ Good call, and especially don’t make it a computer document on your work computer where you have to leave it behind suddenly when you’re escorted out of the office when you’re fired unexpectedly. I make a point of using my Yahoo account for any info I want to have after my job is over, to make sure it’s portable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-and-advice-about-my-manager-please/684832.md?page=2)