# Opinions of US improving throughout the world **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990 "2005-07-31T07:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/1 "2005-07-31T07:11:48Z")
There’s an interesting article in the [LA Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-boot27jul27,0,1437541.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions) today, decribing a new PEW survey that shows support for the U.S. increasing all over the world, including the Muslim world: > [@](#): > > The public opinion poll was conducted by the Pew Global Attitudes Project, hardly a bastion of neocon zealotry. (It’s co-chaired by Madeleine Albright.) Over the last three years, Pew surveys have charted surging anti-Americanism in response to the invasion of Iraq and other actions of the Bush administration. But its most recent poll — conducted in May, with 17,000 respondents in 17 countries — also found evidence that widespread antipathy is abating. > > The percentage of people holding a favorable impression of the United States increased in Indonesia (+23 points), Lebanon (+15), Pakistan (+2) and Jordan (+16). It also went up in such non-Muslim nations as France, Germany, Russia and India. > > What accounts for this shift? The answer varies by country, but analysts point to waning public anger over the invasion of Iraq, gratitude for the massive U.S. tsunami relief effort and growing conviction that the U.S. is serious about promoting democracy. > > There is also increasing aversion to America’s enemies, even in the Islamic world. The Pew poll found that “nearly three-quarters of Moroccans and roughly half of those in Pakistan, Turkey and Indonesia see Islamic extremism as a threat to their countries.” > > Support for suicide bombing has declined dramatically in all the Muslim countries surveyed except Jordan, with its large anti-Israeli Palestinian population. The number of those saying that “violence against civilian targets is sometimes or often justified” has dropped by big margins in Lebanon (-34 points) and Indonesia (-12) since 2002, and in the last year in Pakistan (-16) and Morocco (-27). I wonder if this isn’t partially an effect of the Iraq war. Until then, Islamist terrorism wasn’t hurting the muslim world much, other than Afghanistan (and the Taliban didn’t have a lot of fans in the middle east anyway). But now, the U.S. is in Iraq, Muslim terrorists are killing fellow Muslims throughout the Middle East. The war has come home to the Muslim world, and they don’t like it. > [@](#): > > What accounts for this decline? Primarily the actions of the terrorists themselves. Since 9/11, most of the atrocities carried out by Islamist groups have occurred in Muslim nations — the latest examples are the bombings in Sharm el Sheik, Egypt, and bombings too numerous to mention in Iraq — and most of the victims have been Muslims. Not surprisingly, this hasn’t endeared the jihadists to a lot of their coreligionists. Another effect may be the commitment to Democracy the Bush administration has shown: > [@](#): > > The latest Pew poll found “large and growing majorities in Morocco (83%), Lebanon (83%), Jordan (80%) and Indonesia (77%) — as well as pluralities in Turkey (48%) and Pakistan (43%) — [that] say democracy can work well and is not just for the West.” Is this the Bush doctrine in action? Take the war to the Jihadists, show the middle east that Democracy is not only possible but that the U.S. will support anyone in their attempts to attain it, and pull the rug of support out from under the jihadists. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Gene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@Soylent\_Gene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Gene)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/2 "2005-07-31T07:22:25Z")
_new PEW survey that shows support for the U.S. increasing all over the world_ is it increasing in **this country**? I hope this is really true. But in Pakistan what does two percent mean…9 percent approval up to 11 percent? Seriously though, Pew is a good polling group. I know this for several reasons, inlcuding the fact that Pat Buchanan doesn’t like them. I’m sure Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity will be leading thier Monday shows with this data! ---
**Author:** ![zega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@zega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zega)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/3 "2005-07-31T07:27:11Z")
Interesting article. “growing conviction that the U.S. is serious about promoting democracy.” The overriding feeling in countries abroad is that the US is imperialistic. This may have been partially true in the Cold War, when the US made several decisions that were often misguided and too based on simply countering “global communism”. But today is the world of one superpower, and one lone superpower can sometimes afford to be a little bit altruistic, even if unevenly and sparsely applied. But now that initially reactions like “oh this is just another Cold War style realpolitik move” have had time to cool, some people might start believing that the US can sometimes actually want good things for other people. The heavy cynicism has partly subsided. Perhaps the new foreign opinion of the US will be “blundering heavy-handed fools who maybe actually mean well”; I think it’s an improvement… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/4 "2005-07-31T08:30:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Another effect may be the commitment to Democracy the Bush administration has shown: Where? There is some posturing that may have some substance behind it in Iraq (where anything that did not look like support for democracy will be seen as justifying the insurgency and even the administration can see that). In Egypt and Jordan, the war on terror has been used as an excuse to shut down a lot of democratic expression and the U.S. has done nothing to tell our “allies” that they need to support free, nonviolent expression. The U.S. has made no visible sign to support democratic actions in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Pakistan. Efforts in Afghanistan are a joke. Nearly every one of the former Soviet -istans are ruled by autocrats that we unfailingly support because they provide transportation routes for our troops into Iraq and Afghanistan. So, we are creating something a bit better than a Potemkin village in Iraq while either actively or passively supporting the suppression of democratic movement throughout the rest of the region. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/5 "2005-07-31T08:38:00Z")
Well, let’s look at the introduction to the report: > **[U.S. Image Up Slightly, But Still Negative](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2005/06/23/us-image-up-slightly-but-still-negative/)** > > Anti-Americanism in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, which surged as a result of the U.S. war in Iraq, shows modest signs of abating. But the United States remains broadly disliked in most countries surveyed, and the opinion of the American people... "Anti-Americanism in Europe, the Middle East and Asia, which surged as a result of the U.S. war in Iraq, shows modest signs of abating. **But the United States remains broadly disliked in most countries surveyed, and the opinion of the American people is not as positive as it once was.** The magnitude of America’s image problem is such that even popular U.S. policies have done little to repair it. President George W. Bush’s calls for greater democracy in the Middle East and U.S. aid for tsunami victims in Asia have been well-received in many countries, but only in Indonesia, India and Russia has there been significant improvement in overall opinions of the U.S. **Attitudes toward the U.S. remain quite negative in the Muslim world** , though hostility toward America has eased in some countries. Many Muslims see the U.S. supporting democracy in their countries, and many of those who are optimists about the prospects for democracy in the Middle East give at least some credit to U.S. policies. But progress for America’s image in these countries is measured in small steps; **solid majorities in all five predominantly Muslim countries surveyed still express unfavorable views of the United States.** The polling in Western Europe, conducted in the weeks leading up to the decisive rejection of the European Union constitution by voters in France and the Netherlands, finds pockets of deep public dissatisfaction with national conditions and concern in several countries over immigration from the Middle East, North Africa and Eastern Europe. There are no signs, however, that Euro-skepticism about the EU has fueled a desire for a closer trans-Atlantic partnership. On the contrary, most Europeans surveyed want to take a more independent approach from the U.S. on security and diplomatic affairs. **Indeed, opinion of the U.S. continues to be mostly unfavorable among the publics of America’s traditional allies, except Great Britain and Canada. Even in those two countries, however, favorable views of the U.S. have slipped over the past two years. Moreover, support for the U.S.-led war on terror has plummeted in Spain and eroded elsewhere in Europe.** **Japan, France and Germany are all more highly regarded than the United States among the countries of Europe; even the British and Canadians have a more favorable view of these three nations than they do of America. Strikingly, China now has a better image than the U.S. in most of the European nations surveyed.** Attitudes toward the U.S. in the former Soviet bloc nations of Poland and Russia are much more positive than in most of Western Europe. In Russia, favorable opinion of its former Cold War adversary has swelled from 36% in 2002 to 52% currently. Opinions of the U.S. in Poland have declined since 2002, but still remain relatively positive (62%)." My added emphasis. Not quite the spin that the LA Times put on it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/6 "2005-07-31T11:00:06Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Well, let’s look at the introduction to the report: > > [http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247](http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247) From that first table, it doesn’t look like we’ve even dug ourselves out of the popularity deficit we created by invading Iraq. That’s not surprising given the 40,000 plus deaths, and the chaos over there, but it does make **Sam** ’s optimistic assessment of the invasion’s effects ring a little hollow. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/7 "2005-07-31T11:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > The percentage of people holding a favorable impression of the United States increased in Indonesia (+23 points), Lebanon (+15), Pakistan (+2) and Jordan (+16) Let’s see from the actual report: Indonesia: 99/00 was 75% favorable, now 38% favorable Lebanon: fewer data points. from 35 to 27 to 42. Pakistan: 99/00 was 23% favorable, now right back at 23% again Jordan: 2002 was 25%, now at 21%. I question the validity of the numbers, don’t see how the approval could go up or down by factors of 10+ Using Indonesian approval ratings to support the Bush administration is a joke. Of the five cited, only Lebanon has a chance of being a true rise. > [@](#): > > Another effect may be the commitment to Democracy the Bush administration has shown: Joke of the day. The beneficiary of Republican voter intimidation efforts and outright election fraud in Florida and Ohio is not interested in democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Eolbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@Eolbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eolbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/8 "2005-07-31T12:07:24Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Well, let’s look at the introduction to the report: > > [U.S. Image Up Slightly, But Still Negative | Pew Research Center](http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247) > **Strikingly, China now has a better image than the U.S. in most of the European nations surveyed.** [This same trend is also now apparent in Australia](http://www.lowyinstitute.org/Publication.asp?pid=236) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/9 "2005-07-31T12:53:21Z")
I’m glad it’s going back up. Some places there wasn’t much room left forit to go any further down. I wonder how long til we get back to where we were. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/10 "2005-07-31T13:10:23Z")
Pjen, thank you for linking the Pew report without the “selective quoting”, that is, without the spin. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/11 "2005-07-31T14:55:30Z")
Oh, the article is by Max “no-calculation-of-national-interest-necessary” Boot. That sure explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/12 "2005-07-31T16:23:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Strikingly, China now has a better image than the U.S. in most of the European nations surveyed. I think that this says more about the Europeans polled than American foreign policy, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/13 "2005-07-31T19:04:17Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Is this the Bush doctrine in action? Take the war to the Jihadists, show the middle east that Democracy is not only possible but that the U.S. will support anyone in their attempts to attain it, and pull the rug of support out from under the jihadists. > > Comments? Unconvincing. By your own arguments, what is “pulling the rug of support out from under the jihadists” is the fact that they keep killing their own co-religionists in Muslim countries, not US policies. The “waning anger about the Iraq invasion” is IMO likely due to the perception that the US is not successfully dominating occupied Iraq and thus is no longer seen as a likely aggressor against other Muslim countries, which a lot of Muslims worldwide were worrying about back in 2003. And I seriously doubt that favorable Muslim views on democracy owe much to any “Bush doctrine”. As Lebanese democracy activist and journalist Rami Khoury has pointed out, there is a long-standing [indigenous pro-democracy movement](http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=665&sid=100) in the Arab/Muslim worlds that has gradually been gaining momentum in its push for serious political change. While there does seem to be a slow [rapprochement](http://www.middleeastwindow.com/article1423.html) between American and Muslim democracy advocates, and IMO pro-democracy rhetoric from the Administration is a good first step towards encouraging that, I don’t think that most Muslims worldwide [buy the line](http://www.thinkingpeace.com/pages/arts2/arts356.html) that “the U.S. will support anyone in their attempts to attain” democracy. In short: International aid, renouncing aggression, genuine support for democratic movements, engagement with international and diplomatic efforts to fight poverty and terrorism, etc., are all good policy choices, and if the US pursues them consistently, I’m sure we will see our approval ratings going steadily up. However, over the past few years our commitment to such policies has been spotty at best, and at worst severely undermined by contrary policies. So I’m skeptical about the suggestion that a modest drop in international pissed-offness should be read as a justification for our overall recent behavior. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/14 "2005-07-31T20:31:51Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I wonder how long til we get back to where we were. I’ll put my money on “A new administration that gives the policies of the current administration the complete denunciation it deserves.” Putting the Bush administration on trial for war crimes wouldn’t hurt, but the odds of that are right up there with **Sam Stone** avoiding misleading Bush-apologistic OPs. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2005, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/15 "2005-08-01T06:10:13Z")
From: > **[Britain: a shining example of dullness in world's eyes](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/aug/01/britishidentity.kirstyscott)** > > Britain is one of the five most popular countries on earth - despite a reputation for being rather dull. The Anholt Nation Brand Image report says: "The US won few plaudits. Asked to rank countries in terms of how they are governed, the US was placed 19th, just ahead of Turkey, Russia, China and South Korea. The US was placed last for its heritage. “America is really a cause for concern at the moment,” Mr Anholt said. "Unless it is stopped very soon, it could end up being irreversible. It is not just Iraq; America has produced unpopular foreign policy on and off for many years. “For the first time, areas of most unpopularity in different parts of the American brand seem to coalesce into one negative brand. People seem to be coming to the conclusion that America is not a very nice place.” ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/16 "2005-08-02T17:14:10Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > The Anholt Nation Brand Image report [Details and downloads here.](http://www.gmi-mr.com/gmipoll/press_room_wppk_pr.phtml) ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/17 "2005-08-07T17:26:03Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > There’s an interesting article in the [LA Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-boot27jul27,0,1437541.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions) today, decribing a new PEW survey that shows support for the U.S. increasing all over the world, including the Muslim world: > > I wonder if this isn’t partially an effect of the Iraq war. Until then, Islamist terrorism wasn’t hurting the muslim world much, other than Afghanistan (and the Taliban didn’t have a lot of fans in the middle east anyway). But now, the U.S. is in Iraq, Muslim terrorists are killing fellow Muslims throughout the Middle East. The war has come home to the Muslim world, and they don’t like it. > > Comments? haven’t read the article, but I guess that the reason the US is viewed less unfavorably than in the recent past is that the US is viewed as less of a threat to other nations. Right after the Iraqi invasion the US looked like it could do anything (militarily). Now that the US ishaving to pay so much in blood and money, and talking about looking for the exit as fast as possible, I suspect that people in other nations don’t feel so threatened. People can begin to consider some of the many good things the US does. The good still isn’t outweighing the bad by a long shot, but at least the balance is being considered. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/18 "2005-08-07T17:32:20Z")
Could any of the increase be in response to the USA’s response to the tsunami? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-of-us-improving-throughout-the-world/314990/19 "2005-08-07T17:49:56Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > I wonder if this isn’t partially an effect of the Iraq war. Until then, Islamist terrorism wasn’t hurting the muslim world much, other than Afghanistan (and the Taliban didn’t have a lot of fans in the middle east anyway). But now, the U.S. is in Iraq, Muslim terrorists are killing fellow Muslims throughout the Middle East. The war has come home to the Muslim world, and they don’t like it. This is one of the more interesting rationalizations i’ve seen. You concede that Islamic terrorists weren’t causing much of a problem in the Middle East. Then the US invaded Iraq, leading to a dramatic increase in Islamic terrorism in the Middle East. And this somehow explains why people in the Middle East should be thankful to America? The only reason the “war has come home to the Muslim world” is that Bush took it there, showing little concern for the people likely to be affected by his megalomania. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Another effect may be the commitment to Democracy the Bush administration has shown. I think you meant to say “the commitment to **paying lip-service to** Democracy.” > [@Sam Stone](#): > > Is this the Bush doctrine in action? Take the war to the Jihadists, show the middle east that Democracy is not only possible but that the U.S. will support **anyone** in their attempts to attain it, and pull the rug of support out from under the jihadists. My emphasis. Anyone, that is, except people who call for democracy in American allied or client states. Have you noticed a great push for democratic reform in Saudi Arabia coming from the Bush administration?