# Opinions on Ayn Rand **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 2, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588 "2017-04-02T15:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/21 "2017-04-02T16:54:49Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I actually knew Ayn Rand, personally. My suggestion is that you read _The Fountainhead,_ then _Atlas Shrugged,_ then her other fiction if you want. But remember, it’s fiction, not a philosophical treatise. After that, her non-fiction is optional. Get from her writings whatever you want (and there’s much to be gotten from it), but stay away from other people’s opinions, both pro and con. > > Hold on to her respect for reason and reality. Hold on to her worship of the noble individual. Hold on to her vision of a world in which people are free to do what they want, as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. But that doesn’t mean you have to accept everything she wrote as gospel. I really liked how she logicaly came to the conclusion that acting responsibly and dealing honestly was also in your own best interest. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/22 "2017-04-02T16:59:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Each of those things is a straw man. She did glorify smoking, but this was the 1950s remember, and she never claimed it was “good for you”. When her doctor told her she had to quit for health reasons, she quit. > > Also, _Atlas Shrugged_ is a work of fiction. It’s not a documentary. Would you criticize\* The Lord of the Rings\* because wizards don’t exist? Did Tolkien claim to that LOTR was written to push his political beliefs? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/23 "2017-04-02T16:59:26Z")
I am curious how much my novel will relate to her work I would hate to be accused of plagerism. I am basicaly developing a giant worldwide collaboration driven by peoples self worth and desire to add value. The collaboration site becomes so powerful with its limitless access to intellectual resources that industry and big money can’t touch it. They have so much horsepower going into every concept, invention or idea that by the time big money becomes aware of it there is too much steam behind it to try and steal it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/24 "2017-04-02T17:12:49Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I honestly have not read enough of her work at this point to say too much. But as far as running peoples lives I see it as the opposite, I think in todays society we struggle to attach value to ourselves and our self esteem struggles. I read a quote where she talked about not beating others, not competing but simply adding value. I think if more opportunity existed to find things we could add value to it would go a long way toward helping those in situations where maintaing self esteem was a stuggle. If you’re interested in the self-esteem aspects, you might want to look into [Nathaniel Branden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Branden). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/25 "2017-04-02T17:12:51Z")
I remember getting so bored with Atlas Shrugged that I gave up reading it. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/26 "2017-04-02T17:19:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If you’re interested in the self-esteem aspects, you might want to look into [Nathaniel Branden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Branden). Thanks for that recommendation. I will certainly be following up on him. This is a good example of how not having an education is really making my writing harder. I really struggle with the research and finding the type of people I am looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/27 "2017-04-02T17:19:44Z")
Rand is a cr\*p artist, who stole her philosophy from Marx, then flipped the social classes. Her so-called ideas are wildly nonsensical, & have never been attempted anywhere, & for good reason. Finally, do not take advice from a chain-smoking drunk. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/28 "2017-04-02T17:24:29Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Rand is a cr\*p artist, who stole her philosophy from Marx, then flipped the social classes. > > Her so-called ideas are wildly nonsensical, & have never been attempted anywhere, & for good reason. > Finally, do not take advice from a chain-smoking drunk. I got a similar impression but at the same time I was impressed with how impartial she could be when breaking down her logic on very subjective issues. From the little I have seen of her I did get an impression that she might be lacking in real ife experience to round off her perspectives. ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/29 "2017-04-02T17:25:20Z")
Rand was a solipsist. Yet we’re still here, **hmmmm** ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/30 "2017-04-02T17:45:47Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I am curious how much my novel will relate to her work I would hate to be accused of plagerism. I am basicaly developing a giant worldwide collaboration driven by peoples self worth and desire to add value. The collaboration site becomes so powerful with its limitless access to intellectual resources that industry and big money can’t touch it. They have so much horsepower going into every concept, invention or idea that by the time big money becomes aware of it there is too much steam behind it to try and steal it. If this is your thesis, nobody will accuse you of plagiarizing Rand. Really. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/31 "2017-04-02T17:52:40Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > If this is your thesis, nobody will accuse you of plagiarizing Rand. Really. She does such an eloquent job of expressing some of her concepts that quoting her is very tempting. If quotes are used and credits are given is permission needed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/32 "2017-04-02T17:53:46Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > She does such an eloquent job of expressing some of her concepts that quoting her is very tempting. If quotes are used and credits are given is permission needed. If your quotes constitute fair use then, no, no permission is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/33 "2017-04-02T17:57:04Z")
Some parts of Ayn Rand’s books are so apt to modern US state that you wonder if she was prescient. “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt.” That’s the modern US governance system. It was not as developed back when this was written. She definitely predicted the direction it would take. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/34 "2017-04-02T18:04:42Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Have you ever actually read _Atlas Shrugged_? I’ve never read such a tedious, preachy book. The characters are so one-dimensional, so utterly humorless and have no personality to them whatsoever. The heros are perfect, beautiful, charming, and everybody loves them. The villains might as well just be hunchbacks twirling their mustaches. (And the NAMES this woman comes up with? Don’t even get me started. Wasn’t there one villain in _The Fountainhead_ called _Balph_?) > > I felt like kicking everybody in the crotch after reading all of that bullshit. It’s so laughable anyone would take her philosophy seriously, whatever your political leanings. My father, who’s a hard-core Tea Party Republican type, agrees with at least some of what Rand was saying. And even _he_ found _Atlas Shrugged_ to be one of the ridiculous, tedious books he ever had the misfortune to open. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/35 "2017-04-02T18:05:33Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Some parts of Ayn Rand’s books are so apt to modern US state that you wonder if she was prescient. > > “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. “We want them to be broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against… We’re after power and we mean it… There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt.” > > That’s the modern US governance system. It was not as developed back when this was written. She definitely predicted the direction it would take. She really is facinating. I see the above as a dramatized example forcing us to look more closely at the direction we are headed. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/36 "2017-04-02T18:17:58Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > She really is facinating. I see the above as a dramatized example forcing us to look more closely at the direction we are headed. Oh _really_. Somehow you don’t instead see this as what the American law enforcement system has been doing to black Americans ever since Reconstruction ended? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/37 "2017-04-02T18:30:04Z")
the more I learn about her, the more I dislike her [Ayn Rand admired a serial killer](https://www.thoughtco.com/ayn-rand-sociopath-who-admired-serial-killer-3975225) edited to remove quote ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/38 "2017-04-02T18:34:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Oh _really_. Somehow you don’t instead see this as what the American law enforcement system has been doing to black Americans ever since Reconstruction ended? No I don’t see that happening. I see a problem with the American black finding value in themselves in American Society , I think they need more and better opportunities to find things they can add value to enhancing their own value. Persistent sterotypes have excluded them from the main stream resulting in poverty that only perpetuates the sterotypes. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/39 "2017-04-02T18:36:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If there were people who read _The Lord of the Rings_ and then tried casting magic spells, that would be a fair comparison. Tolkien’s readers understand his fiction is not a guideline for how things work in the real world. Agreed. Everyone knows you need the Necronomicon to do any serious spell casting. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588/40 "2017-04-02T18:43:17Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I am curious how much my novel will relate to her work I would hate to be accused of plagerism. I am basicaly developing a giant worldwide collaboration driven by peoples self worth and desire to add value. The collaboration site becomes so powerful with its limitless access to intellectual resources that industry and big money can’t touch it. They have so much horsepower going into every concept, invention or idea that by the time big money becomes aware of it there is too much steam behind it to try and steal it. Rand has inspired so much fiction, you’d almost have to work at it deliberately in order to make plagiarism noticeable. I have faith that you’ll come up with enough original ideas to make the work “your own.” There really are ideas in her mix that are worth exploring. They just need a little maturity. But look how much she grew between Fountainhead and Atlas. If you can continue one step further in the same direction, you’d be doing fine. (And I have great faith that your book won’t contain a hundred-page monologue! 😉 ) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-ayn-rand/783588.md?page=3)