# Opinions on new Russian Armata tank and AK-74M **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430 "2015-05-06T23:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/1 "2015-05-06T23:14:23Z")
> **[Russia Debuts Tanks, Putin Claims To Have 'Most Powerful Tank In The World' -...](https://www.inquisitr.com/2069745/russia-debuts-tanks-putin-claims-to-have-most-powerful-tank-in-the-world)** > > Russia debuted its tanks and showcased the nation’s enhanced military might to the world. Vladimir Putin‘s country is expected to publicly unveil “several high-tech combat vehicles” during the country’s World War II Victory Day celebrations scheduled... [http://rt.com/news/256277-ak-rifle-russia-parade/](http://rt.com/news/256277-ak-rifle-russia-parade/) Any opinions? The AK-74 sounds like it could be a game-changer in sales abroad. The Armata tank, I just don’t see being a huge thing. They’re both being introduced on VE Day in Russia - which just has me thinking how cool it might have been to have a few of those tanks in 1944. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/2 "2015-05-07T00:39:34Z")
Since you are asking for and there could only be opinions given I reported this to be moved. The Armata is interesting. It is a revolutionary design. Russian built tanks do not have a good reputation for survivability. With a remote turret and the crew in the hull that could be a game changer. However, I have heard on several tanker pages that the capabilities given all sound like Soviet era propaganda. The turret was covered until the parade. The boxes on the turret might be fake. The ones shown are apparently the only ones in existence. There are some that are questioning their ability to put it into full production. I’m going to wait and see on this. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/3 "2015-05-07T00:54:28Z")
Accessorized AKs have been around for some while. Nothing in that description, except the improved accuracy, is new. Who even buys new AKs, anyway? The insurgent world is awash in surplus ComBloc AKs the commies handed out and the nations who use them largely make their own. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/4 "2015-05-07T03:20:14Z")
There’s the old saying about speaking softly and carrying a big stick. I believe the opposite is also true. When I hear a government leader emphasizing how overwhelmingly powerful his military forces are, my default assumption is that his military forces are actually a lot weaker than everyone else had thought. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/5 "2015-05-07T04:03:09Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Since you are asking for and there could only be opinions given I reported this to be moved. > > The Armata is interesting. It is a revolutionary design. Russian built tanks do not have a good reputation for survivability. With a remote turret and the crew in the hull that could be a game changer. > > However, I have heard on several tanker pages that the capabilities given all sound like Soviet era propaganda. The turret was covered until the parade. The boxes on the turret might be fake. The ones shown are apparently the only ones in existence. There are some that are questioning their ability to put it into full production. I’m going to wait and see on this. Sure, thanks **Loach**. It’s an IMHO for sure. You’re right - the tank had been shown on TV, etc, here (I’m in St. Petersburg) until this week with the fabric on the turret. Don’t know about any parts being fake, however. As for the VE-day/May 9 parades, there will be plenty of T-90’s and those are plenty real. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/6 "2015-05-07T04:03:54Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Accessorized AKs have been around for some while. Nothing in that description, except the improved accuracy, is new. Yeah, I’m kind of confused on that one. The AK-74 is not new by any stretch of the word - it’s right there in the designation. It’s called that because it was introduced in 1974. The M variant is from 1991. As for the T-14, considering Russian tanks’ woes with their autoloaders in past decades, an unmanned turret seems like a singularly bad idea but hey. Long as they don’t ask me to drive one, whatever floats their battleship. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/7 "2015-05-07T04:33:02Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, I’m kind of confused on that one. The AK-74 is not new by any stretch of the word - it’s right there in the designation. It’s called that because it was introduced in 1974. The M variant is from 1991. > > As for the T-14, considering Russian tanks’ woes with their autoloaders in past decades, an unmanned turret seems like a singularly bad idea but hey. Long as they don’t ask me to drive one, whatever floats their battleship. [QUOTE=SputnikNews] The gun will be digitally controlled by a crewmember located in a separate compartment, which would be made from composite materials and protected by multi-layered armor. The crew compartment will be also isolated from the motor compartment to increase survivability on the battlefield. [/QUOTE] > **[New Russian Tank to Have Remotely Controlled Gun](https://sputnikglobe.com/20120326/172401704.html)** > > Russia’s future main battle tank (MBT) will be equipped with a remotely controlled gun, the Izvestia newspaper said on Monday citing a defense industry source. Survivability, always a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/8 "2015-05-07T04:44:36Z")
More from the ArmyTimes (a US site): > **[Faster than an Abrams: Meet Russia's new tank](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2015/05/05/faster-than-an-abrams-meet-russia-s-new-tank/)** > > Some details on the T-14 Armata, just in time for Russia's Victory Parade show of military might. > [@](#): > > Unlike previous Soviet/Russian vehicles, crew safety (survivability) and \*\*comfort \*\*appear to be a concern ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/9 "2015-05-07T05:26:41Z")
The devil’s in the details. How redundant is the remote operation of the turret to deal with battle damage from hits that don’t produce catastrophic kills? How good is the suspension (in other words is it really faster cross country or does it effectively need to go slower off road?) How much does it cost? How much does it cost to maintain and operate so your troops can train? What’s the armor package? What the hell is with the giant shot trap to the left of the gun. Continuing usage of the 125mm missile through tube makes me question if they’ve improved the effective range of their gun/fire control combo. The guided missile are quite a bit more expensive than a main gun round and travels much slower. Guidance both gives the chance to correct and gives the target time to evade or seek cover (almost 18 seconds to max range). Maybe they don’t need it anymore but included it for the extreme ranges since it was pre-existing. It was more a solution to being outclassed at range when introduced though. The best thing I can see from a Russian tanker perspective is the separate crew compartment. The are no longer in the turret exposed ammo that like to go boom when hit. The down side compared to separate ammo storage is the turret still pays the cost meaning it’s harder to repair and get back in the next fight. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/10 "2015-05-07T06:13:08Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > [New Russian Tank to Have Remotely Controlled Gun - 26.03.2012, Sputnik International](http://sputniknews.com/military/20120326/172401704.html) > > Survivability, always a good thing. Yeah, I get that. The issue is that autoloaders jam a lot, and somebody has to unfuck the thing, during which time the tank obviously can’t fire. And sometimes a round hang-fires and the gunner has to deal with it in a real fucking hurry else the turret goes boom. Good luck dealing with that when the crew is a) only two guys, one of which is busy driving at all times and b) locked in a “shatterproof chamber”. I expect there’s a hatch they can open to get inside the turret and such, but that all takes precious seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/11 "2015-05-07T06:42:32Z")
I’m skeptical of the concept of a 2-man crew, especially when it comes to situational awareness. IMHO, you need at least 3 people to operate a tank in combat: a driver to look at the terrain, a gunner to look at the target, and a commander to look for the _next_ target. (Besides, what’s with this Russian obsession with small tank crews? Even during the Cold War, the Warsaw Block standard was 3 to the NATO 4. After all, if there’s something Russia never had a shortage of, it’s personnel). ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/12 "2015-05-07T08:04:54Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > The devil’s in the details. … What the hell is with the giant shot trap to the left of the gun That I will try and find more about. When it’s revealed (in daylight) the narration will be from the Kremlin/Ministry of Defense HQ: Greatest battle-tank evar!1!!! Both Palace Square and Red Square are closed to the public for these parades. So I won’t be able to walk up and knock on the turret to see if it’s made of cardboard. The shot trap, however, I will see. On TV. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/13 "2015-05-07T08:08:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah, I get that. The issue is that autoloaders jam a lot, and somebody has to unfuck the thing, during which time the tank obviously can’t fire. And sometimes a round hang-fires and the gunner has to deal with it in a real fucking hurry else the turret goes boom. > > Good luck dealing with that when the crew is a) only two guys, one of which is busy driving at all times and b) locked in a “shatterproof chamber”. I expect there’s a hatch they can open to get inside the turret and such, but that all takes precious seconds. Just something from Wiki, the authority on all things military (though these at least make sense): > [@](#): > > The replacement of the loader and gunner with a commander and driver could allow crewmembers to rotate shifts. This would enable continuous operations on the battlefield.[7] > > A typical response of Soviet/Russian military theorists is that freed-up personnel can be directed to other assignments, e.g. manning SAM launch vehicles covering the tanks from air attack. As far an unfucking the thing - which is firing something upwards of 40 shots a minute - I have no clue who gets that job. Also I’d like to know how fast/capable it is “off-road” as it were. General Winter and all. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/14 "2015-05-07T08:13:47Z")
So what, the spare personnel used for shift rotation are just going to walk behind the tanks? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/15 "2015-05-07T08:21:14Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > As far an unfucking the thing - which is firing something upwards of 40 shots a minute. I’ll retract that 40. That’s for a twin-barrel AK-130 (130 mm) autoloader. Somewhere around 15-20 seems about right for a 150mm. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/16 "2015-05-07T08:25:14Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > I’ll retract that 40. That’s for a twin-barrel AK-130 (130 mm) autoloader. Somewhere around [del]12-15[/del] seems about right for a 150mm. ArmyTimes says 12 spm. Still pretty fast. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/17 "2015-05-07T08:33:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > (Besides, what’s with this Russian obsession with small tank crews? Even during the Cold War, the Warsaw Block standard was 3 to the NATO 4. After all, if there’s something Russia never had a shortage of, it’s personnel). Not just tanks. The Soviets and now Russians have always favoured automation to a huge degree. You see it in their spacecraft and submarines and strategic missiles. Also in Tank crews. Its an engineering philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/18 "2015-05-07T10:54:08Z")
Ruh Roh! (as we say in Russian) New Russian T-14 Armata tank grinds to a halt on Red Square [http://rt.com/news/256437-armata-stuck-moscow-parade/](http://rt.com/news/256437-armata-stuck-moscow-parade/) Good thing they’re only rehearsing. But this doesn’t speak well. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/19 "2015-05-07T11:02:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So what, the spare personnel used for shift rotation are just going to walk behind the tanks? Nah, man, they just told you : they’ll be operating the SAM vehicles. Then every 8 to 12 hours, the crews shift. That way each vehicle is always manned by a fresh crew, and the vehicles can be run 24/7 ! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430/20 "2015-05-07T11:17:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Nah, man, they just told you : they’ll be operating the SAM vehicles. Then every 8 to 12 hours, the crews shift. That way each vehicle is always manned by a fresh crew, and the vehicles can be run 24/7 ! 🙂 That’s hilarious! I don’t know which “shift” I’d want to be on. Probably the SAM vehicles. At least there’s a chance of “run away” if fit is about to hit the shan. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opinions-on-new-russian-armata-tank-and-ak-74m/719430.md?page=2)