# Opium eater? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690 "2010-11-14T23:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/1 "2010-11-14T23:24:38Z")
Where did this term come from? The earliest mention I can find was _Confessions of an English Opium-Eater (1821 )_ an autobiographical account written by **Thomas de Quincey**. This mention was in wikipedia and at some other sources. Did Quincey coin this phrase, or did it rise out of the opium dens of China and the New World (San Francisco)? Or where? ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/2 "2010-11-14T23:41:10Z")
there were opium dens in 19th century London, opened by Chinese or Indian immigrants. One such is mentioned in the Sherlock Holmes story “The Man with the Twisted Lip”. Since some addicts did in fact eat opium as opposed to smoking it, why not call them “eaters”? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/3 "2010-11-14T23:44:32Z")
Cited back to at least 1785. > [@OED](#): > > opium-eater n. > > 1785 tr. F. de Tott Mem. I. 176 Teriaky Tcharchissy, the Market of \*Opium-eaters. 1867 Galaxy 4 May 26 When the opium-eater has swallowed or inhaled his drug, the effect is speedy. 2002 N.Y. Mag. 28 Aug. 36/2 Today’s opium-eaters stuff chunks into emptied-out gelcaps and swallow. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/4 "2010-11-14T23:49:58Z")
I suspect that De Quincey was consciously playing on the expression “lotus eater,” which goes back to the Odyssey. Odysseus visits the land of the lotus eaters who eat the plant, and consequently live in a drugged haze. I don’t know whether the Homeric “lotus” was really the opium poppy (they do naturally grow in what is now Turkey, I believe), but its effects seem to have been similar. An educated 19th century Englishman like De Quincey would certainly have known his Homer. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_intrepid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dr\_intrepid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_intrepid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/5 "2010-11-15T06:39:50Z")
I don’t know, but I must stop by here to recommend the wonderfully entertaining Poppies: Odyssey of an Opium Eater. Give it to your mom for Christmas, get a copy for your local clergyman, and be sure to read it yourself. You’ll never want to become an opium eater after reading it (if you value the ability to make bowel movements, that is). ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/6 "2010-11-15T09:13:21Z")
This question brought to mind the opening chapters of _The Golden Compass_ (AKA _Northern Lights_), the first book in Philip Pullman’s excellent _His Dark Materials_ trilogy. In one passage, the book describes a group of alternate-universe Oxford scholars serving poppy heads fried in butter because it “clarified the mind and stimulated the tongue.” I assumed the poppy heads were meant to be eaten, but I never found any other references to eating fried poppies. I think I even asked about it here. BTW, I just spent an hour or so reading a really amazing article on the blurry legalities surrounding poppy cultivation: [Opium Made Easy by Michael Pollan,](http://www.wesjones.com/pollan1.htm) author of _The Omnivore’s Dillema_. Apparently the difference between a legal poppy and an illegal one in your garden depends entirely on whether you know what you can do with it! Seriously, it is a frightening article. All commercially available poppy seeds and plants are varieties of _Papaver somniferum_, but many are sold under different botanical names such as _Papaver paeoniflorum_ and _P. rhoeas_ (names which actually refer to specific cultivars of the same species as _P. somniferum_). **Knowingly** growing _P. somniferum_ is a felony, but the same DEA agent spearheading a crackdown on home poppy cultivation will tell you to grow the botanically identical _P. giganteum_, because as long as you don’t **know** it’s the same species (and one might hope the leading DEA officer on the poppy task force _does_ know) you’re free and clear. Unless you piss the wrong person off, of course, or read the wrong library book. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/7 "2010-11-15T11:57:49Z")
They’re a familiar sight in an English garden. We put the seeds on bread rolls. ---
**Author:** ![Bewildebeest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bewildebeest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bewildebeest)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/8 "2010-11-15T14:13:20Z")
Papaver rhoes is not a cultivar of P somniferum. It is a completely different species. I’m not sure if it’s illegal to grow P. somniferum anyway. I’ve seen it growing in the Dallas Arboretum and Botanic Garden, and in fact, one of my neighbors has it growing in his front yard. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/9 "2010-11-15T15:01:34Z")
Poppy seeds, as on bagels, will show a tickle for opiates on a piss test. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/10 "2010-11-15T20:09:54Z")
> [@Bewildebeest](#): > > Papaver rhoes is not a cultivar of P somniferum. It is a completely different species. Sorry, you’re correct. I misread the article. _Papaver paeoniflorum_ is identical to _P. Somniferum_; _P. rhoes_ is not (although the article doesn’t specify this). One of the points the article makes is that it is very confusing, since there is no clear distinction between opium poppies and non-opium poppies, and seed companies and florists sell botanically identical poppies under a variety of names and identifiers. > [@Bewildebeest](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s illegal to grow P. somniferum anyway. I’ve seen it growing in the Dallas Arboretum and Botanic Garden, and in fact, one of my neighbors has it growing in his front yard. Did you read the article? Or [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_poppy)? In fact, you can see [here](http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html) that opium poppies are classified as a Schedule II narcotic, alongside PCP and cocaine. Yes, the same ones that gardeners and flower shops grow and display. The same ones at the Dallas Arboretum. Tell your neighbor not to piss you off, because you could easily destroy his life. Read the article. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/11 "2010-11-16T17:57:27Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Sorry, you’re correct. I misread the article. _Papaver paeoniflorum_ is identical to _P. Somniferum_; _P. rhoes_ is not (although the article doesn’t specify this). One of the points the article makes is that it is very confusing, since there is no clear distinction between opium poppies and non-opium poppies, and seed companies and florists sell botanically identical poppies under a variety of names and identifiers. > > Did you read the article? Or [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_poppy)? In fact, you can see [here](http://www.justice.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html) that opium poppies are classified as a Schedule II narcotic, alongside PCP and cocaine. Yes, the same ones that gardeners and flower shops grow and display. The same ones at the Dallas Arboretum. > > Tell your neighbor not to piss you off, because you could easily destroy his life. Read the article. I don’t have a cite, but remember reading some article about opium poppies. A DEA officer was quoted to the effect that “they wouldn’t even go around the corner” [to prosecute someone for a couple of poppy plants]. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/12 "2010-11-16T21:41:29Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I don’t have a cite, but remember reading some article about opium poppies. A DEA officer was quoted to the effect that “they wouldn’t even go around the corner” [to prosecute someone for a couple of poppy plants]. _sigh_ Did you read the article either? That’s pretty much what the DEA says to Michael Pollan. At the same time that they are pursuing a case against one of Pollan’s acquaintances for having store-bought poppies in his house and sending threatening letters to florists’ associations and seed catalog publishers. The entire point of the article is that they generally _don’t_ enforce the laws against poppy growing, but can and do when a busy-body neighbor or houseguest complains or when an overzealous DEA agent decides he doesn’t like something you’ve published. If your neighbor pisses you off and you lie to the DEA and say that she is growing marijuana in her closet, there is a good chance DEA will come bust up your neighbor’s house, dig through her garden, make threatening noises at her, and then leave when they don’t find anything. They may then come and make threatening noises at _you_ over false reporting. If you instead say truthfully that your neighbor is growing poppies and further claim falsely that she is growing them to make opium tea for her rheumatism and showing others how to do the same, then the DEA will very possibly bust up her house, confiscate her ornamental poppies, seize her house or encourage her landlord to evict her, file charges against her, and ruin her life forever. If any of her gardening books make mention of the fact that she _could_ extract opium from her flowers, she may even be convicted of manufacturing drugs. This is pretty much exactly what happened to the man Michael Pollen met. He got in an argument with a house guest, who told the feds that the man had a drug lab. What he had was a few dried poppy heads from a florist and a book he had written about how to produce opium. No actual opium, no poppies with slits for extracting the opium, no evidence of harvesting them, just some dried flowers that most florists sell for making dried arrangements and a book. The book was evidence that he knew that the poppies you buy from floral shops are opium poppies, and that made possessing them a crime. Seriously, read the fucking article. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/13 "2010-11-17T03:58:47Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > They’re a familiar sight in an English garden. We put the seeds on bread rolls. We Americans are also no strangers to poppy seeds, which can be bought from the grocery store spice rack, just like poppyseed bagels. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/14 "2010-11-17T04:00:08Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > _sigh_ Did you read the article either? > > Seriously, read the fucking article. I have read the article. [Mod hat on] You tone down the snark. [/MHO] ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/15 "2010-11-17T05:58:23Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > > > I don’t have a cite, but remember reading some article about opium poppies. A DEA officer was quoted to the effect that “they wouldn’t even go around the corner” [to prosecute someone for a couple of poppy plants]. > > _sigh_ Did you read the article either? > > That’s pretty much what the DEA says to Michael Pollan. At the same time that they are pursuing a case against one of Pollan’s acquaintances for having store-bought poppies in his house and sending threatening letters to florists’ associations and seed catalog publishers. > > The entire point of the article is that they generally _don’t_ enforce the laws against poppy growing, but can and do when a busy-body neighbor or houseguest complains or when an overzealous DEA agent decides he doesn’t like something you’ve published. Exactly. I don’t like the intrusive nature of these laws any more than you apparently do, but if a violator gets in bad with someone else who knows about it, and is the sort of person who likes to meddle and make trouble, the laws provide an obvious way of exacting revenge. However, my point stands that if you _don’t_ aggravate your neighbors or advertise your activities, it’s very unlikely they’ll come after you. > [@](#): > > If your neighbor pisses you off and you lie to the DEA and say that she is growing marijuana in her closet, there is a good chance DEA will come bust up your neighbor’s house, dig through her garden, make threatening noises at her, and then leave when they don’t find anything. They may then come and make threatening noises at you over false reporting. At least it’s nice to hear they don’t take false reports too well. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/16 "2010-11-17T06:32:27Z")
This sort of bullshit is why we have hydroponics. 😃 You have the same problem with shrooms - you can buy the spores (at least that used to be true, not sure about now), but you can’t grow them. Or nitrous. You can buy nitrous for whipped cream (lots and lots of whipped cream), but you can’t inhale. The thing is, that you can buy powdered Mimosa root that has a high concentration of DMT and extract it very easily. There are even varieties of wild grass that can be used. All legal until you do the extraction. And to cap things off, have a taste for some scheduled drug? Just order from overseas. If it gets stopped at customs, the worst that happens is they send you a letter saying that your (allegedly yours - of course) shipment was seized. Oops. Time to reorder. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/17 "2010-11-17T07:32:34Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Exactly. I don’t like the intrusive nature of these laws any more than you apparently do, but if a violator gets in bad with someone else who knows about it, and is the sort of person who likes to meddle and make trouble, the laws provide an obvious way of exacting revenge. However, my point stands that if you _don’t_ aggravate your neighbors or advertise your activities, it’s very unlikely they’ll come after you. In that case we agree, but it wasn’t at all clear that that was the point you were making. And it’s not just the intrusive nature of the laws I don’t like but the way they can be used to trap people and the way they make knowledge a crime. You can’t grow cannabis plants and claim that you didn’t know that they were the same variety you could smoke, but the DEA will tell you you can grow _P. giganteum_ because you can’t make opium from it, and then arrest you if you find out that you _can_ make opium out of it. **Even if you don’t actually make opium from it, but merely write something indicating that you know it is possible.** > [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I have read the article. > [Mod hat on] > > You tone down the snark. > [/MHO] I apologize if I came off too strong, but surely you can see why I thought you hadn’t read the article. ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/18 "2010-11-17T22:22:22Z")
A spin-off question - why did opium smokers lay on their side? ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/19 "2010-11-17T22:29:56Z")
> [@janeslogin](#): > > A spin-off question - why did opium smokers lay on their side? I assume for the same reason heroin users lay on their side- so they don’t choke if they vomit in their drugged sleep. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opium-eater/560690/20 "2010-11-17T22:33:09Z")
Because the [method](http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://thegrumpyowl.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/nude-lady-in-opium-den.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thegrumpyowl.com/2009/09/20/nude-ladies-in-the-opium-den/&usg=__S1zgDqkGCqnrutLk47vRluPlTmg=&h=311&w=480&sz=86&hl=en&start=44&sig2=gTnamhINvulXLZKzIsnRQQ&zoom=1&tbnid=b-1HUnWmRjAaKM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=200&ei=kFfkTIXtIYP6sAPylJVm&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522opium%2Bden%2522%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1028%26bih%3D632%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1381&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=593&oei=VFfkTJa9Mo32swO9lID1Cg&esq=4&page=4&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:44&tx=105&ty=73&biw=1028&bih=632) requires it.