# Oppenheimer (2023 Christopher Nolan film) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 21, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361 "2023-07-21T18:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/41 "2023-07-24T06:16:00Z")
I found it mostly dull. I didn’t dislike it but it wasn’t particularly fun, insightful, or visually entertaining. It was just, like, a fairly competent biopic that Nolan gussied up with editing, sound, and weird effects. I swore off Nolan films after the stinker that was Interstellar and then the unwatchable Dunkirk. But evidently I don’t have much courage in my convictions. I’m happy to say that Nolan seemed somewhat restrained here. I could understand about 95% of the dialog, and while the “music“ was bad, it didn’t make me nauseous. The cast may have saved it. Lots of great performances. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/42 "2023-07-24T06:24:30Z")
Gratuitous crap. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/43 "2023-07-24T14:59:40Z")
It was my understanding that the sex scene was not gratuitous, because Oppenheimer came up with the flux capacitor mid-coitus. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/44 "2023-07-24T15:20:33Z")
A movie about a theoretical physicist, set more than 70 years ago, just had an $80M opening weekend. [Domestic 2023 Weekend 29 - Box Office Mojo](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/2023W29/?ref_=bo_hm_rw) But it was eclipsed by a movie about a doll, which raked in $155M and clocked the biggest opening day of 2023. [“Barbie” has biggest opening day of 2023, “Oppenheimer” not far behind - CBS News](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/barbie-biggest-opening-day-2023-oppenheimer-not-far-behind/) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/45 "2023-07-25T01:16:16Z")
Latest discourse-type question I’ve seen on this movie: is it irresponsible/racist/whatever to ignore the effects of the atomic bomb in a movie about the maker of the atomic bomb, regardless of its relevance to the focus of the film? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/46 "2023-07-25T01:20:12Z")
No. To do the question justice–even at a basic level–would require more time than the movie had available. Better to leave it open ended. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/47 "2023-07-25T01:24:21Z")
Based on the discourse (the online discussion, not the software here), I’d say the counter to that in the minds of those I’ve read would be, “if you can’t, then don’t do the movie at all, if you’re going to just shrug and dismiss the lives lost as unimportant to your _artistic vision_.” And I’m not even getting into the sub-arguments on whether the bombs themselves were justified; that debate probably won’t ever be resolved… I mention that only because I’m sure it’s a sticking point for those who don’t like the film for political reasons; it reads to them as American warmonger propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/48 "2023-07-25T01:31:28Z")
Which lives lost? The ones that died via the bomb, or the ones that would have died had the bombs not been dropped? It would be irresponsible to not take the full range of reasonable viewpoints seriously. It was a movie about Oppenheimer, not the effects of the bombs on the Japanese (except inasmuch as they affected Oppenheimer’s beliefs). Other movies can tackle those questions. That said, I think the whole thing would make a fantastic miniseries (apparently there was one, but it was historical fiction). That would give more time to tackle the hard questions. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/49 "2023-07-25T01:38:08Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Which lives lost? The ones that died via the bomb, or the ones that would have died had the bombs not been dropped? The former. I mean, only those who think that the bombs were justified talk about the latter, for various reasons. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It was a movie about Oppenheimer, not the effects of the bombs on the Japanese (except inasmuch as they affected Oppenheimer’s beliefs). Other movies can tackle those questions. And the argument (as far as I can tell) is that the atomic bomb is a subject that _cannot_ be discussed in a responsible fashion, even tangentially, without touching on its horrible effects, especially when we have scores of bomb development and drop victims in multiple countries and races who are still alive _right now_. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/50 "2023-07-25T01:47:33Z")
…And the username of the poster I’m discussing this subject with has sunk in. Well done, universe. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/51 "2023-07-25T01:48:34Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > The former. I mean, only those who think that the bombs were justified talk about the latter, for various reasons. If the people asking these questions believe that there is no pro- argument at all, then their opinions can be dismissed. They aren’t taking the question seriously and just want the movie to spread their own propaganda. It would be impossible to make any movie about anything if they all had to address any _important questions_ that tangentially come up within the film. It’s absurd. And counterproductive, since such extra scenes would be seen as a joke compared to a serious treatment. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/52 "2023-07-25T02:08:11Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > And counterproductive, since such extra scenes would be seen as a joke compared to a serious treatment. Great username/post combo! But seriously…I thought the film did address the impact of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki deaths on Oppenheimer’s thoughts — not through another hour of exposé, but through a few minutes of well chosen scenes, dialogue, and (especially) acting (Murphy’s facial expressions in close-up). The only thing I might have added is a bit more about the specific effects of radiation poisoning. _Fat Man and Little Boy_ did this by showing one of the two gruesome accidents at Los Alamos (the one before the Trinity test; in real life, there was also one about a year after the test, as I recall). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/53 "2023-07-25T02:26:52Z")
Well, my area of expertise is strategic weapons. I just dabble in tactical ones. > [@JKellyMap](#): > > But seriously…I thought the film did address the impact of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki deaths on Oppenheimer’s thoughts I agree, and I think I touched on this above when I mentioned the effects on Oppenheimer’s beliefs. I can only guess at what the people **Leaper** is citing had in mind. But it sounds as if they wanted additional scenes showing the horrors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The trouble is that the bombs were dropped in the context of WW2. And to show _some_ of those horrors, while ignoring others, would itself be irresponsible. If dropping the bombs is a war crime, should be not show the numerous war crimes committed by the Japanese? Or even the other ones committed by the Allies, like the bombing of Dresden, which was arguably comparable in magnitude. No; it’s best to stay out unless it can be tackled properly. The movie was about Oppenheimer. The supporting scenes were about how they affected the man. To go further would just be propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/54 "2023-07-25T02:35:53Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I found it mostly dull. I didn’t dislike it but it wasn’t particularly fun, insightful, or visually entertaining. The vast, vast majority of critics profoundly disagree with you. Rotten Tomatoes reports an average rating of 94% from 340 critics. > [@steronz](#): > > I swore off Nolan films after the stinker that was Interstellar and then the unwatchable Dunkirk. Wow! OK. I guess you’re entitled to your opinion, but _Interstellar_ has an 8.7 rating on IMDb based on 1.9 million votes, and was nominated for five Oscars, and across all awards bodies had a total of 148 nominations and 44 wins. I’ve seen it at least five times, once in IMAX and then multiple times at home. I’ve also read Kip Thorne’s book explaining some of the more arcane aspects of the science in the film. Some of it was pretty wild and speculative, but as technical advisor and executive producer, Thorne refused to cross over into the outright impossible, like the faster-than-light travel that Nolan wanted. _Dunkirk_ also had five Oscar nominations, and a total of 233 nominations and 65 wins. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/55 "2023-07-25T02:46:48Z")
[quote=“wolfpup, post:54, topic:987361”] I guess you’re entitled to your opinion, but _Interstellar_ has an 8.7 rating on IMDb based on 1.9 million votes, and was nominated for five Oscars, and across all awards bodies had a total of 148 nominations and 44 wins.[/quote] @steronz may have only seen Interstellar in the theater. I saw it at home, and five minutes in I had to either stop, have my head explode, or turn on captions. I turned on captions and liked the move OK. (It was very overblown and a bit overlong.) Interstellar is a movie with mostly inaudible dialog, not enough audible to be useful, even when not overwhelmed by the music and sound effects. Until I turned on captions I hated, Hated, _HATED_ that movie (with no apologies to the late Roger Ebert). I have promised my self to never see another Nolan flick in the theater, and this discussion has not changed my mind. I’ll see Oppenheimer at home at some point. What I really want to do is re-watch the PBS series from the 1980s. That was good. And you could hear what people were saying! What a crazy concept, from a simpler time. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/56 "2023-07-25T04:59:07Z")
Weird. I have watched Nolan movies in the theater (among them “Interstellar”) in the Netherlands (English original soundtrack with Dutch subtitles) and I never found them to be “inaudible” or the dialogue to be “hard to understand”. Technical differences between theaters in the USA and NL, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/57 "2023-07-25T05:16:55Z")
Theaters certainly differ in how they adjust the volume levels. Nolan movies do tend to have a huge dynamic range; i.e., there’s a large difference between the quietest and loudest sounds. Dialogue is generally quiet, but also mostly comes through different speaker channels than other sounds. So it’s certainly possible that some theaters might have a different policy when it comes to the volume of the dialogue channels vs. the others. I mostly didn’t find it a problem in Oppenheimer. Except for the final line! (I looked it up later) I think the closing music was starting to swell at that point and I couldn’t make it out. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/58 "2023-07-25T06:03:03Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Weird. I have watched Nolan movies in the theater (among them “Interstellar”) in the Netherlands (English original soundtrack with Dutch subtitles) and I never found them to be “inaudible” or the dialogue to be “hard to understand”. Technical differences between theaters in the USA and NL, perhaps? I’ve never found any of his films hard to hear when watching in a theater in the US either. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/59 "2023-07-25T10:47:49Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Wow! OK. I guess you’re entitled to your opinion, Yes, I understand that art is subjective, but with Nolan films, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills sometimes. Like the emperor’s new clothes, it feels like there’s much talk about the sound mixing but rather than everyone acknowledge that the sound ruins his films, people _love them anyway_, When _Tenet_ came out there were seemingly lots of people who left the theater shortly into the movie because they couldn’t understand the dialog but didn’t want to spoil the plot before they got a chance to watch the movie at home with subtitles. What? The correct response to watching a movie where you can’t hear the dialog is to deride it, IMO. I saw both _Interstellar_ and _Dunkirk_ in IMAX theaters with bombastic sound the way Nolan wanted me to see it, and the bombastic sound ruined both movies. _Dunkirk_ made me physically nauseous and I wanted to leave. That’s what I mean by unwatchable, I literally did not want to be in the theater anymore because it was just too loud. A case could be made that the people trying to escape from Dunkirk also didn’t want to be there, so Nolan was making an artistic choice to make me _feel_ what they felt. But… come on, I’m not going to praise a movie that made me physically ill. I saw _Oppenheimer_ in a normal theater, which maybe contributed to me not having such a visceral reaction to it. But the sound editing still made the movie worse, IMO. I’m not sure if the Red Letter Media guys need an introduction anymore, but I [watched their review of it last night.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3irn5SxXLA&t=4s&ab_channel=RedLetterMedia) They discuss at points about how Christopher Nolan doesn’t think his frat boy _Inception_ audience (their description of his fans, not mine) would be entertained enough by the slow paced scenes of dialog without the amped up sound and editing. I don’t know if I agree that that’s the reason he makes movies the way he does, but I definitely agree that Nolan writes mediocre dialog and then relies on sound and editing to try and make it interesting. His movies are better when the sound actually matches what’s on the screen, like _Batman_ or _Inception_ (as long as he doesn’t take it to _Dunkirk_ levels). Oppenheimer’s life didn’t need that sort of treatment (I actually read _American Prometheus_ when it was released and thoroughly enjoyed it), and the quality of the cast he put together didn’t need it either. At the end of the review, Mike and Jay mock Nolan by overlaying scenes from _12 Angry Men_ with sound from the _Oppenheimer_ trailer. Such a succinct criticism of the film. And yet, they both loved it and recommend it. C’est la vie. The emperor’s clothes are lovely. ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361/60 "2023-07-25T12:22:27Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > And yet, they both loved it and recommend it. C’est la vie. The emperor’s clothes are lovely. Do you see the contradiction in your post? Apparently, Red Letter Media reviewed the film, mocked some of its artistic choices, and still came away liking it overall. I’m really not seeing how Emperor’s New Clothes applies here, rather than a simple difference in artistic taste. Myself, I found the sound editing heightened the scenes and made them much more dramatic. True, the scenes without the sound and editing would maybe be a bit dull, but _that’s why Nolan made them this way_. If this takes away from your enjoyment of the movie because it makes the dialog less intelligible, I can’t argue with that, but don’t dismiss everybody who likes Nolan’s movies as being brainwashed fanboys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oppenheimer-2023-christopher-nolan-film/987361.md?page=4)