# Opposition to "buyback" programs is what invalidates what the NRA has become **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201 "2013-02-03T07:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/21 "2013-02-03T20:55:26Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Why? > They are always “no questions asked” events. As I was saying, it’s ridiculous to allow criminals such an easy way to dispose of evidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/22 "2013-02-03T21:29:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And he’s also not shooting anyone else with that gun. I’d call that a win. I don’t see how assisting a criminal in getting away with his crimes is a win for anyone except the criminal. Are you suggesting that he would then be deterred from getting another weapon and committing another crime - because the government has now assisted him in getting rid of evidence? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/23 "2013-02-03T22:09:46Z")
Did not read all the posts so perhaps this will be way off track, but I will just pipe up with my thought that getting a reduction in the bizarre and insane amount of gun-inflicted violence in this country is going to probably be a lot like reducing tobacco use – attack on many fronts. There are many ways to address the issue, and some will be effective and others not so much, but the cumulative effect will be noticeable if pressure is continuous and multifaceted. There are objections to every proposal, but why not try them out? If real data shows a program is ineffective or misguided, abandon it then. It is clear to me that what happened with cigarette smoking is that, not through one but many approaches to the problem, smoking gradually came to seem more and more uncool, dirty, inconvenient, expensive, rude, harmful to others, and everyone became inescapably aware that it was stupid to do something so awful to yourself (of course the stupidity of an idea is not a universal deterrent, but when everyone around you thinks it’s stupid, that has some effect). This broad new, artificially and deliberately created cultural agreement is the foundational cause of the reduction of cigarette smoking. I believe, anyway. There are a fair number of similarities between the two issues – heavy political investment by large companies fighting for their profits, a mystique and cool-identity factor, the defense that “this habit I am so attached to isn’t hurting anyone else”, a passionate resistance to the gathering of useful data, attribution of the problem to unconvincing other causes . . . I can think of a lot. Which makes me slightly hopeful that turning the cultural tide is not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/24 "2013-02-03T22:30:55Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Did not read all the posts so perhaps this will be way off track, but I will just pipe up with my thought that getting a reduction in the bizarre and insane amount of gun-inflicted violence in this country is going to probably be a lot like reducing tobacco use – attack on many fronts. There are many ways to address the issue, and some will be effective and others not so much, but the cumulative effect will be noticeable if pressure is continuous and multifaceted. There are objections to every proposal, but why not try them out? If real data shows a program is ineffective or misguided, abandon it then. That’s a great idea. So you agree that reintroducing the Assault Weapons Ban should be abandoned then, given the real data that exists between the years 1994-2004 that shows that it didn’t make a damn bit of difference? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/25 "2013-02-03T22:44:48Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > As I was saying, it’s ridiculous to allow criminals such an easy way to dispose of evidence. 😉 I doubt the NRA lawsuit has anything to do with **that,** either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/26 "2013-02-03T22:45:52Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Did not read all the posts so perhaps this will be way off track, but I will just pipe up with my thought that getting a reduction in the bizarre and insane amount of gun-inflicted violence in this country is going to probably be a lot like reducing tobacco use – attack on many fronts. There are many ways to address the issue, and some will be effective and others not so much, but the cumulative effect will be noticeable if pressure is continuous and multifaceted. There are objections to every proposal, but why not try them out? If real data shows a program is ineffective or misguided, abandon it then. > > It is clear to me that what happened with cigarette smoking is that, not through one but many approaches to the problem, smoking gradually came to seem more and more uncool, dirty, inconvenient, expensive, rude, harmful to others, and everyone became inescapably aware that it was stupid to do something so awful to yourself (of course the stupidity of an idea is not a universal deterrent, but when everyone around you thinks it’s stupid, that has some effect). This broad new, artificially and deliberately created cultural agreement is the foundational cause of the reduction of cigarette smoking. I believe, anyway. > > There are a fair number of similarities between the two issues – heavy political investment by large companies fighting for their profits, a mystique and cool-identity factor, the defense that “this habit I am so attached to isn’t hurting anyone else”, a passionate resistance to the gathering of useful data, attribution of the problem to unconvincing other causes . . . I can think of a lot. Which makes me slightly hopeful that turning the cultural tide is not impossible. This. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/27 "2013-02-04T04:30:28Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > As I was saying, it’s ridiculous to allow criminals such an easy way to dispose of evidence. 😉 And I was replying to your claim that it took a pair of large cajones to to do so. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/28 "2013-02-04T04:31:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I doubt the NRA lawsuit has anything to do with **that,** either. Has a lawsuit been filed? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/29 "2013-02-04T13:30:42Z")
As I observed in this thread, started almost a month ago, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678335&highlight=buyback](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678335&highlight=buyback) it seems as if the recent objection to the buyback program is a fear that it will turn from an optional program to a mandatiory one. That has happened in other countries, and more than one official has apparently suggested it in the US. The NRA is trying to nip such notions in the bud. When the NRA president was interviewed on NPR, he didn’t mention anything about criminals disposing of possible crime-related weapons\*, or the outrageously low price being paid for valuable antiques, or the destruction of still useful devices, or the suggestion that destroying such weapons was a waste of taxpayer money that could be recouped through sales – the only point he brought up was the possibility of mandatory buybacks. \*The turned-in guns were checked to see if they matched guns used in crimes during the Arizona buyback. I believe it’s SOP. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/30 "2013-02-04T13:36:23Z")
As I observed in this thread, started almost a month ago, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678335&highlight=buyback](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678335&highlight=buyback) it seems as if the recent objection to the buyback program is a fear that it will turn from an optional program to a mandatiory one. That has happened in other countries, and more than one official has apparently suggested it in the US. The NRA is trying to nip such notions in the bud. When the NRA president was interviewed on NPR, he didn’t mention anything about criminals disposing of possible crime-related weapons\*, or the outrageously low price being paid for valuable antiques, or the destruction of still useful devices, or the suggestion that destroying such weapons was a waste of taxpayer money that could be recouped through sales – the only point he brought up was the possibility of mandatory buybacks. \*The turned-in guns were checked to see if they matched guns used in crimes during the Arizona buyback. I believe it’s SOP. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/31 "2013-02-04T13:37:25Z")
See in particular my posts 12, 392, and 429 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/32 "2013-02-04T13:45:02Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I think that is a legitimate problem. I’m pro-choice, I’m pro-gay rights, and I don’t have a problem with legal immigration, and I had been of the impression that democrats had chilled out on the gun control issue since the 1994 gun bans. Now I feel forced to vote Republican again. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear you were me. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/33 "2013-02-04T13:57:24Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > That’s a great idea. So you agree that reintroducing the Assault Weapons Ban should be abandoned then, given the real data that exists between the years 1994-2004 that shows that it didn’t make a damn bit of difference? So what do you think about this **Ulfreida**? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/34 "2013-02-04T13:58:29Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > It’s too bad third parties aren’t viable in our current political system. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/35 "2013-02-04T18:33:56Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And I was replying to your claim that it took a pair of large cajones to to do so. Yes. I’m convinced it doesn’t because of the no questions asked policy, which I was unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/36 "2013-02-04T22:02:50Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > So what do you think about this **Ulfreida**? waiting for link. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/37 "2013-02-04T22:37:49Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > It is clear to me that what happened with cigarette smoking is that, not through one but many approaches to the problem, smoking gradually came to seem more and more uncool, dirty, inconvenient, expensive, rude, harmful to others, and everyone became inescapably aware that it was stupid to do something so awful to yourself (of course the stupidity of an idea is not a universal deterrent, but when everyone around you thinks it’s stupid, that has some effect). This broad new, artificially and deliberately created cultural agreement is the foundational cause of the reduction of cigarette smoking. I believe, anyway. So, gun ownership is like smoking? Or do you want to see gun ownership viewed in this way by the general population? > [@Ulfreida](#): > > heavy political investment by large companies fighting for their profits Do you believe that the NRA is primarily representing manufacturers? Rob ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/38 "2013-02-04T22:49:19Z")
Weird…and here I thought that ‘buyback’ programs actually invalidates the anti-gun folks who support it. 😛 Or, since we are painting with a really broad brush today, ‘buyback’ programs (which must be in quotes) invalidates not only all anti-gun folks, but all liberals too…plus, small furry animals and left handed, red haired Anabaptist… ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/39 "2013-02-04T22:58:09Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > So, gun ownership is like smoking? Or do you want to see gun ownership viewed in this way by the general population? The reason Federal agencies were prohibited from gun safety research is largely because some of the CDC officials wanted to deliberately cultivate this manner of thinking as a way to bring down the gun industry. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/40 "2013-02-05T00:12:55Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > So, gun ownership is like smoking? Or do you want to see gun ownership viewed in this way by the general population? > > Do you believe that the NRA is primarily representing manufacturers? > > Rob The similarity between the two is that both are extremely destructive, unnecessary (in the case of gun ownership, there is a _small_ practical use for guns, in the case of smoking there is none) and, deeply embedded in the cultural mythos. The degree to which the NRA is funded and guided by the interests of gun and ammo manufacturers is just now coming to public attention. I am not sure there is a way to define the exact degree as yet, but further study might clarify it. Would I like there to be an extreme reduction in the number of guns in this country? Yes, unequivocally yes. Also, I strongly regret posting. I have noticed the extreme pugnaciousness and irrationality of the aficionados of killing machines and find the crazy far too toxic even at this remove. I don’t intend to revisit this thread or any others on the topic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201.md?page=3)