# Opposition to "buyback" programs is what invalidates what the NRA has become **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201 "2013-02-03T07:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/41 "2013-02-05T01:44:26Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > waiting for link. > **[Perspective needed on murders in America | CalWatchdog.com](https://calwatchdog.com/2012/12/28/perspective-needed-on-murders-in-america/)** > > Dec. 28, 2012 By John Seiler Our country still mourns the victims of the horrible mass killing in Newtown, Conn. New gun-control legislation is being advanced in the U.S. Senate If you look carefully you will see U.S. murder rates start downward before the 94-2004 gun ban, reached a plateau about 5 years before it ended and then start downwards again after the gun ban expired. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/42 "2013-02-05T01:49:44Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Would I like there to be an extreme reduction in the number of guns in this country? Yes, unequivocally yes. Us gun rights advocates already knew that about gun-control advocates. > [@](#): > > Also, I strongly regret posting. I have noticed the extreme pugnaciousness and irrationality of the aficionados of killing machines and find the crazy far too toxic even at this remove. I don’t intend to revisit this thread or any others on the topic. Funny because I think the gun-control advocates are irrational and pugnacious. I still would like to hear your comments regarding the effect of the prior AWB on murder rates but I understand that you might rather leave it alone. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/43 "2013-02-05T01:55:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you advocating that we use the same system when it comes to firearms that the Swiss use? Don’t you think allowing people to keep their guns in the home but not requiring them to leave their ammo with the military might be a good idea. Granted, Charlton Heston probably wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/44 "2013-02-05T05:25:53Z")
For my part, I accept as a fact that America will never in your lifetime or mine or our grandchildren’s be a disarmed society to the extent of the UK or Japan. I do not even have any brief for any particular gun-control regime (though I think Canada’s is at least worth studying and learning from, the culture and conditions being so very similar to ours). No, my position is simply that gun ownership **is not a matter that merits constitutional protection.** It should not be regarded as a “right” in the sense that free speech is a right. It does not deserve to be set above-and-beyond the reach of the ordinary legislative/political process in that way. Gun control should be **merely** a political issue, to be threshed out at the polls and in the legislatures, not in the courts – and, of course, American gun owners and gun-rights activists will for generations to come be very strong at the polls and in the legislatures. So what? Legislatures can look at policy studies, evaluate gun-control efforts on their merits and effects, try things and reject what turns out not to work in practice, and be accountable to the voters for the results. That is good enough, it is how reasonable public policy can and is and should be made. But we do not have any good or rational use for the Second Amendment in this day and age. My position, also, is that gun control in and of itself is not all that important, compared to other issues facing our society, like the distribution of wealth. It’s like gay marriage – I’m all and unreservedly for it, but, if I were a politician, I would not give it a very high priority compared with a lot of other things. The lack of it is no **existential** threat to our society, no more than the presence of it; and likewise with guns. They kill a lot of people needlessly, but in terms of the general health of American society, guns are like a flu compared to cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/45 "2013-02-05T14:03:03Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > [Perspective needed on murders in America | CalWatchdog.com](http://www.calwatchdog.com/2012/12/28/perspective-needed-on-murders-in-america/) > > If you look carefully you will see U.S. murder rates start downward before the 94-2004 gun ban, reached a plateau about 5 years before it ended and then start downwards again after the gun ban expired. I do not know whether the assault weapons ban had any effect on the decline in murder rates as shown in the chart. But the chart does not prove they did not, just because the rates started to fall before the ban. Perhaps the murder rate would not have fallen as much as it did if the ban hadn’t been enacted. I do seem to recall seeing data on specific murders by assault weapons which suggests that the ban didn’t have any effect, but this chart doesn’t show it. As a side note, consider this unsupported claim tacked on at the end of the article: > [@](#): > > NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been calling for strict gun control. And he has credited the murder drop to better police work. But the real reason murders have dropped is that more New Yorkers now are armed and can defend themselves. Potential killers no longer enjoy attacking universally unarmed victims. Evidently other reasons for the decline in murder rates across the country mentioned in the article don’t apply to New York City. Not that the author supports any of those claims with any data either. For instance he mentions that potential crime victims can use cell phones to more quickly summon police without anything to suggest this results in lower crime. The point is that despite the charts showing the decline in murders, which I think we’re all aware of, the article doesn’t make a good case for _why_ the rate has declined, only through the charts, that it has. It would have been surprising and refreshing if the author could have also included an unsupported claim about how reducing guns resulted in lower crime, but perhaps that wouldn’t have helped in supporting his agenda. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/46 "2013-02-05T14:08:09Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > it seems as if the recent objection to the buyback program is a fear that it will turn from an optional program to a mandatiory one. That has happened in other countries, and more than one official has apparently suggested it in the US. The NRA is trying to nip such notions in the bud. Hmmm… wonder why nobody thought that the Cash For Clunkers program was the first step toward total car confiscation? I’ve got it! There are no batshit crazy lobbists for drivers making millions from their members’ paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201/47 "2013-02-05T14:18:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It wasn’t always what it is now. [There was a time](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rifle_Association) when the NRA was more open-minded to gun-control. But the organization has changed over time. > > And now [look where that has led.](http://www.npr.org/2013/01/09/168926749/nra-vows-to-stop-tuscon-from-destroying-guns) > > See [this Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=678335) on that. > > IOW, it now appears that instead of couching the argument in terms of “freedom” or “rights” or “lesser of two evils,” the NRA has evolved to the position that a heavily-armed society is something America **should** have, and any effort to make it less-armed is bad. > > This is as if Libertarians arguing for drug-decriminalization were suddenly to start proclaiming that cocaine and heroin are **good** for you, and the more of those substances we have on the market the better. It would shatter the credibility even of their more-credible arguments. I think the question I’d want answered first is “Does it violate Arizona’ state law?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opposition-to-buyback-programs-is-what-invalidates-what-the-nra-has-become/649201.md?page=2)