# OPRAH- It's Not Because You Were Black! Get the Hell Over It! (lame)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 28, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207 "2005-06-28T15:19:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/21 "2005-06-28T17:47:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Yep. Apparently, worse than being raped and molested by a relative.
Did that happen to Oprah, or Marsha Brady?
[sub]I have missed a few episodes of both shows.[/sub]
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### Author:  [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/22 "2005-06-28T17:50:54Z")
> [@Hung Mung](#):
>
> I’d like to see Tina and Oprah go at it to the death in a cage.
> Two divas enter. One diva leave.
That truly is beyond Thunderdome.
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/23 "2005-06-28T17:54:22Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> IIRC, when asked about the incident, the store manager apologized and said “We’ve been having problems with North Africans lately,” as if that were an excuse.
>
> Sounds like racism to me.
>
> –Cliffy
If there is a cite for this it might make me think Oprah is only 99% a bitch.
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### Author:  [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/24 "2005-06-28T17:55:08Z")
> [@brickbacon](#):
>
> Are you still on this? Nobody besides Oprah and Hermes knows what happened. It is very possible that she was discriminated against because she is black. I wouldn’t be the first time a high-end store did something like that, and it won’t be the last. Her story is far more plausible than what the store is claiming. Why don’t you wait until she actually talks about the incident on her show before you claim she is lying.
Still? When was I on it before? I think the spittle on your end has obscured your view of my username, as I don’t think I’ve expressed a view yet. Show me where I claimed she was lying. It’s my opinion that she probably is, or that she, either willingly or innocently misinterpreted the situation. It’s my opinion that things probably happened the way the store says, but maybe she honestly believes differently. But as I said, those are only my opinions based on the evidence I have at this point. I’m not saying THIS HAPPENED (as you seem to be, at least).
Anyhow, it’s your opinion that she was discriminated against (I mean, _you’re_ certainly not waiting for more evidence, now are you?), it’s your opinion that her story is more plausible. That’s all like, your opinion, man. However, all that’s moot. Know why?
Because I didn’t even express an opinion about this particular situation. Nope. I responded to the comment about “They’ve done it before,” and saying that isn’t a valid argument. Nothing more, nothing less.
Cape or white horse?
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### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/25 "2005-06-28T17:57:41Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> According to Agence France-Presse, [that’s not true](http://www.entertainment.news.com.au/story/0,10221,15724899-10431,00.html). Her empire is global, and her show airs in more than 100 countries, including France. The store clerks recognized her.
Just because the show airs doesn’t mean anyone watches it. It could be just shown on the French version of BBC America. Nice station, but not exactly a way to gain prominence in American pop culture and fame.
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### Author:  [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/26 "2005-06-28T18:04:00Z")
> [@Podkayne](#):
>
> Did that happen to Oprah, or Marsha Brady?
>
> [sub]I have missed a few episodes of both shows.[/sub]
It was Cousin Oliver. Creepy little bastard. You missed it because everyone had stopped watching by then.
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### Author:  [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/27 "2005-06-28T18:13:22Z")
> [@Garfield226](#):
>
> Still? When was I on it before? I think the spittle on your end has obscured your view of my username, as I don’t think I’ve expressed a view yet. Show me where I claimed she was lying. It’s my opinion that she probably is, or that she, either willingly or innocently misinterpreted the situation. It’s my opinion that things probably happened the way the store says, but maybe she honestly believes differently. But as I said, those are only my opinions based on the evidence I have at this point. I’m not saying THIS HAPPENED (as you seem to be, at least).
>
> Anyhow, it’s your opinion that she was discriminated against (I mean, _you’re_ certainly not waiting for more evidence, now are you?), it’s your opinion that her story is more plausible. That’s all like, your opinion, man. However, all that’s moot. Know why?
>
> Because I didn’t even express an opinion about this particular situation. Nope. I responded to the comment about “They’ve done it before,” and saying that isn’t a valid argument. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Cape or white horse?
My apologies, I’ve confused you with someone else in the other thread about this. Did you read all the articles about this, because most of the evidence leads me to believe the store is lying? The store says Oprah was handed a card by a security guard and told to come back the next day. They say have this on tape. Oprah’s “people” say she spoke to at least two people who worked there. IF they have this on tape, they should release the tape showing that only the security guard spoke to Oprah. Oprah will be publicly embarrassed and exposed for her lies. Not only are you suggesting that Oprah made up the “North African” thing, but you have to believe that Hermes apologized for no reason, and that Oprah would lie about something she had to know they had on tape. AFAIK, Oprah has never done anything like this before, so that’s a mighty large indictment of her character to say that she would concoct a story like this. Besides, what would she have to gian by doing so?
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### Author:  [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/28 "2005-06-28T18:19:43Z")
> [@Cliffy](#):
>
> IIRC, when asked about the incident, the store manager apologized and said “We’ve been having problems with North Africans lately,” as if that were an excuse.
>
> Sounds like racism to me.
>
> –Cliffy
> [@](#):
>
> The New York Post, in its Monday Page Six gossip column, reported she was turned away because the store had been “having a problem with North Africans lately.”
>
> In comments to CNN, an Hermes spokeswoman categorically denied that allegation.
>
> “There was never any discussion of North Africans,” she said. “The story is not true.”
>
> The spokeswoman said Winfrey came to the store 15 minutes after closing and a security guard informed her the store was closed and gave her a card, telling her she could come back the next day.
>
> Surveillance videotape of the encounter supports the store’s account, according to the spokeswoman.
>
> She said the CEO of Hermes has called Winfrey’s people to explain “the situation” and invited her to come back to shop in the store.
The store denies those allegations (no big surprise) [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/22/oprah.apology/index.html)
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/29 "2005-06-28T18:24:48Z")
Gayle King also denied the North African rumors.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/30 "2005-06-28T18:31:59Z")
> [@Neurotik](#):
>
> Just because the show airs doesn’t mean anyone watches it. It could be just shown on the French version of BBC America. Nice station, but not exactly a way to gain prominence in American pop culture and fame.
Okay, so let me get this straight. We know that her show airs in France. We know that the clerks recognized her. So our default assumption should be that “the French DON’T KNOW WHO OPRAH IS”? Or was there some other reason that you’re attacking my response to that statement?
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/31 "2005-06-28T18:38:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Okay, so let me get this straight. We know that her show airs in France. We know that the clerks recognized her. So our default assumption should be that “the French DON’T KNOW WHO OPRAH IS”? Or was there some other reason that you’re attacking my response to that statement?
We know that the clerks recognized her?
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### Author:  [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/32 "2005-06-28T18:39:47Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#):
>
> Oprah is a wimp.
>
> Tina Turner would have busted down the door and kicked some Parisian ass.
Doesn’t Tina Turner live in Paris? Or at least in France? I’ll bet she would have been recognized; Oprah should have done a little name dropping.
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### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/33 "2005-06-28T18:40:01Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Okay, so let me get this straight. We know that her show airs in France. We know that the clerks recognized her. So our default assumption should be that “the French DON’T KNOW WHO OPRAH IS”? Or was there some other reason that you’re attacking my response to that statement?
Um, we don’t know that the clerks recognized her. That’s the entire point of people saying that the French don’t know who Oprah is.
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### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/34 "2005-06-28T19:01:25Z")
1. Just wanted to say “superb rant” to the OP. Great stuff, and well put. 😃
2. As to “how could they NOT recognize Oprah”, it’s my experience that not everybody looks like they look all the time (I have been known to fail to recognize my own mother in public on occasion), and especially that celebrities _in person_, on the street, can look vastly different from the way they look primped and posed on-screen. The first thing that popped into **my** head when I heard this story was, “No surprises there–tired clerks, it’s after closing, they’re not inclined to open back up for somebody who, although famous, at the moment _doesn’t happen to look the way she does on TV_.”
3. I too found the “This is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me!” a little bit hard to swallow, given the speaker’s history of childhood sexual abuse, her constant and public struggles with her weight and love life, and her against-all-odds clawing her way to the top in an industry that anybody with any sense realizes is a nature-red-in-tooth-and-claw jungle, and one furthermore which historically has not been kind to females, or blacks. I thought, “Babe, if being denied admittance to a tony store after hours is the worst thing that’s ever happened to you, then your bio must be totally wrong…”
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/35 "2005-06-28T19:09:27Z")
> [@Neurotik](#):
>
> Um, we don’t know that the clerks recognized her. That’s the entire point of people saying that the French don’t know who Oprah is.
Um, Agence France-Presse says they did. Do you have some conflicting source with equal credibility?
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### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/36 "2005-06-28T19:21:34Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> Um, Agence France-Presse says they did. Do you have some conflicting source with equal credibility?
Cite, por favor. This would be the first I heard of it. Aside from one of Oprah’s entourage saying, “They knew who she was, if it was Celine Dion they would have let her in.” Which just sounds like idle speculation to me.
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### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/37 "2005-06-28T19:23:12Z")
Great. Just what Middle America needs, another lie to get upset with the French about.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/38 "2005-06-28T19:24:19Z")
> [@Neurotik](#):
>
> Cite, por favor. This would be the first I heard of it. Aside from one of Oprah’s entourage saying, “They knew who she was, if it was Celine Dion they would have let her in.” Which just sounds like idle speculation to me.
I linked it above already, and mentioned Agence France-Presse by name. Did you respond without reading the post?
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### Author:  [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/39 "2005-06-28T19:27:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I linked it above already, and mentioned Agence France-Presse by name. Did you respond without reading the post?
Nope, I read it. Even clicked on the link. Just missed the blurb at the end of the article about the company confirming that they recognized her. Fair enough, I’m wrong.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [June 28, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oprah-its-not-because-you-were-black-get-the-hell-over-it-lame/310207/40 "2005-06-28T19:36:14Z")
So which is the more likely explanation:
1- The clerks/security-guard recognized Oprah (because, after all, only low-browed ignorant cretins don’t recognize every American pop-culture icon) and knew that she is a billionaire with access to a media pulpit to tens of millions of people, but they just _soooooooooooooooooo_ hate the idea of their merchandise being carried by somebody with African ancestry that they decided to say “Go way!” and catapalted a metaphorical cow in her direction, hang the consequences
or
2= The clerks/security-guard honestly did not recognize her, had instructions not to let _anybody_ in after hours except by special permission or appointment (by her own case, Oprah had neither), and were simply doing their job
As for the “Maybe the store people thought she was a North African shoplifter” allegation above, here’s a little known fact: most shoplifters shoplift when the store is _OPEN_. Oh sure, maybe if you’re Rex Reed or Hedy Lamarr or Winona Ryder you can have your people call ahead and say “My celebrity client would like to steal some of your merchandise but doesn’t want a big press stink when s/he gets arrested… could you open the store late for us and just kind of look the other way until they go through the detectors?”, but for your regular Joe and Jane Shoplifter it’s during regular business hours.
Also, had Tina Turner (who is undeniably famous in France) or Michael Jackson or even Denzel Washington or some other very famous, very wealthy African-American shown up, you can almost guarantee they’d have been allowed in. OTOH, had you or I or even one of the stars of _Yes Dear_ (a show that I’m pretty sure isn’t seen in France) shown up, we’d have been snootily told to come back tomorrow. This is not about class but about money, purely and simply.
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