# Opt-out organ donation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579 "2013-01-18T03:00:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/101 "2013-01-21T21:12:49Z")
A gradual opt-in system starting with new or renewed drivers’ licences and passports (and similar state ID) would be sensible. Nobody could claim to be uniformed about it if, when they renewed their DL or passport, the info was all there for them. Better than restricting it to just drivers’ licences. The smallish number of people who have no passport/state ID or DL could still opt in via an organ donor registry, like we have already in the UK. Anyone who still had the old-style ID with no option listed would be considered to have opted out, though their family can still be asked, like they can today. And the family’s wishes should still be respected. I find it amusing that someone would object to organ donation because it would be mutilating their body, but they also say they’d like an open-casket burial. Of course, given that sevencl lives in the uk, where closed caskets are the norm, she might not be aware just what an open casket burial entails and genuinely think that the corpse is just displayed as is. > [@elfkin477](#): > > So how would an opt-out system work in regards to the family’s wishes? Say we start this before I renew my license next, or before I get a chance to opt out however else it might be handled, and I die. My parents know I do **not** want to be an organ donor\* (yes, I’ve actually discussed this with them) but if I die before getting the paperwork to opt-out submitted, would my parents be listen to? As it stands now with our opt-in system this wouldn’t be an issue. > > - after learning the particulars of how organ donation works I decided against it. I’ve registered for the bone marrow registry instead According to the link posted upthread, even those countries that have opt-in donation systems still need the permission of the family. And obviously it doesn’t apply to minors. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Oak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dbc845/32.png) [@Gary\_Oak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Oak)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/102 "2013-01-22T11:23:06Z")
I think the opt in system would be a whole lot better… that just my 2 cents ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/103 "2013-01-22T14:31:47Z")
“Would be?” That’s the system we already have. Would you like to spare another cent and explain what you mean and why? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/104 "2013-01-22T14:45:31Z")
The last paragraph in my post above should read opt-out, not opt-in, in case that wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/105 "2013-01-22T18:08:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Frankly, I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to be an organ donor. Some religions seem to believe that you will eventually be physically resurrected, and thus adherents want to be as intact as possible. I don’t know what they thing about people do die in fires. Anyhow, when the zombie war starts, do you want to be stalking around missing pieces? I thought not. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/106 "2013-01-22T18:13:53Z")
Stupid. Jesus dies for your sins and you can’t even be assed to let someone borrow your heart once you’re through with it. Selfish fucks. If there were a god he’d shitcan their miserly souls and start over. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/107 "2013-01-22T21:36:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think a lot of European countries already have opt-out organ donation. Please tell me which ones are particularly dystopian. I did not argue opt-out leads to dystopy. In fact, if you peruse the thread, I believe opt-out is the way to go, as long as the opting out is sufficiently easy for those wishing to do so - this is even stated in the very comment of mine you quoted from to start this here sidebar. I don’t appreciate you misrepresenting my position like that. What my original quote was in response to was: [QUOTE Originally Posted by faithfool Considering trying to save lives is as about important as it gets, if I had the power to enact laws, I’d make it mandatory to donate your organs upon death. Period. No religious or other exemptions either. You’re not using your body anymore, someone else should have the opportunity to survive with whatever they need from it. The rest, to me, is just BS. /QUOTE] Where faithfool asserts that saving lives trumps anything, and s/he would mandate donation, regardless of religious or other objections. This based on need. My response was: [Quote That’s a slippery slope. Starts with mandating this and that, ends with gulags and concentration camps. For example, why wait till death before distributing the organs where they do the most good? I’m not really using my spare time - should I be forced to work building roads during those hours? I strongly believe you should be able to determine what happens to your body, including after you die. But that is if you care. Someone like me, who doesn’t, should be default opt-in. Anyone who does care and objects, should be able to opt out with minimal effort, and no starting the program until there was the (easy and convenient) opportunity to opt out. /QUOTE] My issue is with society mandating what a person does or does not need, especially when it comes to that most personal of posessions - your body. You then took it from the specific (society mandating what happens to your body) to the general (“all societies mandate”) So I tried to clarify (“when societies start mandating what happens to parts of your body because they deem your need insufficient, it’s a slippery slope.”) You, then, brought up the Nazis and the Soviets. I can see how, since a few post earlier I mentioned gulags and concentration camps, But I did not in fact argue that in history any society actually started by mandating donation and ending up a dystopia. I tried to clarify further: " I believe that when governments dictate what can happen to your body, or parts of it, regardless of your wishes, even if it is after death, that we are well on our way to a dystopia. " This had no effect - you kept trying to argue against something I did not in fact argue to begin with, and add 2 new ones: that an opting-out system is the equivalent of mandating what happens to your body - when my statements clearly show I believe _the exact opposite_, and that by extension I believe that opt-out, specifically, leads to totalitarianism, A claim I never made. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/108 "2013-01-22T21:54:27Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > I don’t appreciate you misrepresenting my position like that. I didn’t intend to do so, and I won’t repeat that. But your argument is still pretty ridiculous, and I did not shift the discussion that way on my own. To return to what you actually did write: > [@Isosleepy](#): > > That’s a slippery slope. Starts with mandating this and that, ends with gulags and concentration camps. So this is not strictly about organ donation, but the suggestion is still ridiculous. > [@](#): > > You then took it from the specific (society mandating what happens to your body) to the general (“all societies mandate”) Correct, because they do. > [@](#): > > So I tried to clarify (“when societies start mandating what happens to parts of your body because they deem your need insufficient, it’s a slippery slope.”) Alright, let me try it this way: has any society ever done this? Because no dystopian or dictatorial society has ever engaged in this behavior as far as I know. They will sometimes dispose of political opponents, but that’s a specific group of people. There are societies with opt-out organ donation, and none have progressed toward dictatorship to my knowledge. I don’t think there is a slippery slope at all. > [@](#): > > You, then, brought up the Nazis and the Soviets. I can see how, since a few post earlier I mentioned gulags and concentration camps I didn’t bring it up, then. I commented on a reference you’d made. > [@](#): > > I did not in fact argue that in history any society actually started by mandating donation and ending up a dystopia. Fair enough. Consider the idea dropped. > [@](#): > > I tried to clarify further: " I believe that when governments dictate what can happen to your body, or parts of it, regardless of your wishes, even if it is after death, that we are well on our way to a dystopia. " What is your basis for believing this? We’re taking history out of the equation because nothing like this has happened in history, so where’s the slippery slope? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/109 "2013-01-23T00:57:36Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > My issue is with society mandating what a person does or does not need, especially when it comes to that most personal of posessions - your body. It is indeed - when you are alive. Not so much when you aren’t. And today we’d pretty much find it foolish to take our possessions with us to the grave, the way the ancients did. Why then take our organs? And we don’t have control of our bodies after death anyway. Put in your will that you want your body parked on a rocker on your front porch, and it ain’t going to fly. I’m not in favor of mandatory donation myself. I think that if we switched to opt out there will be plenty of organs, so it doesn’t hurt anything to let those who feel sensitive about the process to not participate, no matter how silly I find those feelings. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579/110 "2013-01-23T01:27:20Z")
> [@Sevencl](#): > > …And again: no, offering people the _option_ to sell organ/s is not exploitative. Are you seeing the word “option”? No one is suggesting forcing people to sell organs. And you have absolutely no right to call something exploitative when it is a matter of pure choice. Absurd. Obviously you know _nothing_ about the black-market organ trade. The most disgusting exploitation racket you’ll ever find. Nothing to do with giving your brother a kidney… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opt-out-organ-donation/647579.md?page=5)