# Optimal Strategy in a Free-falling Elevator **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587 "2016-01-19T17:22:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/61 "2017-03-03T02:04:35Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I once read that falls from dangerous heights are most survivable for people who land on their feet rather than land in a horizontal position. The thinking is that the energy transfers into your legs first, and so even if you suffer terrible fractures it still absorbs some energy before it transfers to your pelvis, spine, and (eventually) head. I think there’s a big difference though, which is that an elevator has a ceiling. If you are in a standing position, and your elevator free-falls to an impact, you’re going to smash flying headfirst upwards into the ceiling. Depending on what the ceiling is made of, you might snap your neck. Whereas, out in the open - say, if you jumped off a 3-story building and landed feet-first - then you would in theory suffer broken legs, etc., but your head wouldn’t smash into anything. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/62 "2017-03-03T02:12:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If you are in a standing position, and your elevator free-falls to an impact, you’re going to smash flying headfirst upwards into the ceiling. Uh, no? The ceiling might come down to meet you, but you’re not going to fly off the floor to meet it. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/63 "2017-03-03T21:12:45Z")
There mayb be some cussioning effect of the shaft becomming slightly pressurised ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/64 "2017-03-04T01:50:28Z")
it’s also worth pointing out that industrial elevators (particularly those used in construction sites and other semi-temporary locations) have a fairly sketchy safety record, as do elevators in parts of the world less concerned about building codes and the like. Standard commercial passenger elevators, as installed as permanent fixtures in modern buildings are extremely safe: As noted by the instances in this thread (which may be all or nearly all of them), fatalities and severe falling elevator-caused injuries happen only in extraordinary conditions, at least in the United States and similarly regulatory nations. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/65 "2017-03-04T03:37:48Z")
The elevator will be slightly cushioned by air resistance, while you within the elevator will be affected almost not at all by air resistance. This means that the only interior surface of the elevator you will be hitting will be the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/66 "2017-03-04T17:37:28Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > This topic jogged my memory. One of the book accounts of the world trade center disaster talked about elevators plunging into the basement, killing the passengers onboard. Apparently[this happened](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-09-04-elevator-usat_x.htm) - those safety brakes are not perfect. > … > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Well of course the WTC elevators plunged into the basement. The whole building plunged into the basement. What would you expect, an elevator car remaining suspended on a single cable sticking straight up into empty air? **Chronos** ’s response and the posing of this question is an exemplary case of the :smack: that happens when physical (indeed, mental/conceptual) analytical frames are off by _jus theees much_ and it seemed you didn’t even have to check. In NO WAY am I imputing conspiracy willfulness to **SamuelA** , but rare events from any besetting conundrum–of thought or emotions all the way to elevator failures and sudden skyscraper collapses–will often allow the analysis to falter. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/67 "2017-03-04T17:46:23Z")
The point with the WTC is that there’s obviously some catastrophic set of conditions that will cause all of the elevator systems to fail, and that threshold must obviously be at some point short of what happened at the WTC, so there was no question that the elevators were going to fail. It was just a question of at what point in the general failure of the building it would happen. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/68 "2017-03-04T18:44:07Z")
Assuming OP situation is Cabled Elevator All cables snap No functioning brakes or safety devices No way to check speed until the car hits bottom. Lay on your back on the floor and Pray Easier to pray laying down. I’m not quite sure if you can even reliably remain on the floor in free fall? You may have to be happy with kissing the ceiling? If you just dropped 60 floors, any springs in the bottom aren’t going to mean much to your body at all, they wont be long enough to decel the car slow enough. Automobiles have springs, they don’t help the occupants when the car drives off a bridge. Like other people said, even if you survived the initial stop, doubtful you will survive the rest of the elevator stopping, because you will be under it. If, in free fall, your body decides it want to visit the roof rather than the floor, things could be more fun as you sling shot into the floor, THEN the roof and other pieces crash in on top of you. I am not sure about in buildings, but it has happened in mine shafts before. Praying was the best option. Futile perhaps, but it keeps the mind occupied better than pissing and shitting yourself while screaming incoherently. Then again, you could get lucky, as long as no other pieces decide to kill you. People have been blown out of B17’s in mid air, with no chute, and lived. People have gone sky diving, had their chute totally fail and hit the ground, and lived. Me, i dont have that kind of luck. I’d try to get all my cloths off before landing though, then someone could open a great debate thread on why the falling victim was totally naked. Shame i wouldn’t be around to read it ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/69 "2017-03-05T02:17:34Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > This. No. Not that. The OP was a hypothetical that Cal was fighting and in no way answered. Nor did the OP suggest it was common. Suggesting hypotheticals, however improbable, is as common as dirt around here. And anecdotally, my uncle was also severely injured when a construction elevator that he was riding in fell. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/70 "2017-03-05T03:11:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The point with the WTC is that there’s obviously some catastrophic set of conditions that will cause all of the elevator systems to fail, and that threshold must obviously be at some point short of what happened at the WTC, so there was no question that the elevators were going to fail. It was just a question of at what point in the general failure of the building it would happen. Pedantry aside, when I read the written accounts of the disaster from surviving witnesses in the lobby - describing the screeching as the elevator cars plummeted to hell in the basement - it was a pretty evocative scene. Also, I always _assumed_ that the cars had perhaps a separate safety brake for each wheel on the side of the elevator shaft and/or independent safety mechanisms made with _different_ mechanical designs. This is probably not the case - there would not have been multiple failures that day, each resulting in fatalities. Realistically, there are probably deployed elevators that have just 1 safety mechanism other than the main cable. It doesn’t mean elevators are unsafe - they are probably safer than taking the stairs, that’s for sure. And Paternosters…jesus. I hate to change the topic, but a Paternoster - if you try to board a paternoster, and get a limb or even your head caught between the moving car and the approaching floor or ceiling, you’re going to lose the limb, correct? I don’t see how the system could have safety mechanisms that allow the paternoster system to keep moving yet detect a caught body part before it crushes or severs it. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/71 "2017-03-05T03:20:04Z")
This episode of The Secret Life of Machines details pretty well all the safety equipment for roped elevators, as well as the inherent safety of hydraulic models: [Secret Life Of Machines - The Lift aka Elevator (Full Length) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSLmzjE_woQ) It also shows why escape hatches have generally been eliminated, as you’re usually much safer stuck inside. What terrifies me is an elevator without a skirt below it (which I have rarely seen, but is shown in the video), such that if you were in a stuck elevator halfway between floors, got the door open, then tried to jump down to the floor, you could easily stumble backwards and fall down the open shaft below the cab. As for air cushioning, that only really works if there’s one elevator in a single shaft with tight clearances. Any building more than a few stories tall is likely to have at least two elevators, and usually they’re in a single shaft open to each other specifically to minimize the piston effect on air. Fast moving elevators can push so much air around that they’d be trying to force it out through the doors, whistling, and causing all sorts of other nuisances. I guess you could have a building with a slow-moving elevator that’s pretty tight in its shaft, such that under normal operation the air could sneak around the sides without much trouble, and even so a free fall from just three or four stories up can be super damaging. I have heard of cases where falling roped elevators have gotten some extra cushioning from the wires and maybe even the broken cables themselves (pulled down by the also falling counterweight I presume) bunching up in the shaft below the cab. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/72 "2017-03-05T04:54:42Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Maybe not, but sometimes [they go up really fast.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrvsfP1PxYk) :eek: [(news article)](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/chile/10886847/Chile-lift-slams-man-into-roof-after-rocketing-31-floors-in-15-seconds.html) I just looked at this one. It looks like a elevator that it’s brake failed and the motor also failed. This can happen if you hit the emergency stop on a elevator that the brake is not working on. But I think it was just a drive motor or generator failure, aslong with a break failure. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/73 "2017-03-05T13:13:40Z")
Air cushioning would certainly be a lot more effective in a tight shaft, but you’ll get some nonzero amount of it even if the elevator is falling through completely open space. Not much, but enough that the surface you inside will end up against will be the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/74 "2017-03-05T15:00:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Air cushioning would certainly be a lot more effective in a tight shaft, but you’ll get some nonzero amount of it even if the elevator is falling through completely open space. Not much, but enough that the surface you inside will end up against will be the floor. Intuitively, I tend to agree. It’s not just question of whether a pressure differential can build up. Terminal velocity for an elevator may be rather slow. The bottom of the elevator is an un-aerodynamic flat face that is held perpendicular to the direction of acceleration. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/75 "2017-03-05T23:35:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Air cushioning would certainly be a lot more effective in a tight shaft, but you’ll get some nonzero amount of it even if the elevator is falling through completely open space. Not much, but enough that the surface you inside will end up against will be the floor. I doubt if the pressure under an elevator gets up to more that 10" of water pressure. or less than 0.050 psi. Not much stopping force in air pressure build up. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587/76 "2017-03-06T00:08:18Z")
^ Good point. I can see air resistance having an effect on terminal velocity, with the elevator cab being about as blunt and un-aerodynamic as you can get, but it’s also very heavy too so the terminal velocity would be quite high. The Mythbusters elevator fall episode was terrifying when they showed it rocketing past the open doorways. Yes it blew around a lot of air, but it didn’t seem to slow it down much. It was a 9 or 10 story building and the elevator still fell at over 50mph. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/optimal-strategy-in-a-free-falling-elevator/743587.md?page=3)