How are poor, extremely grateful kids on a scholarship snobs?
It can be very hard, on a message board, to articulate the socioeconomic problems that are very likely to indicate behavior problems within a school. Whatever you say, you sound like a judgemental, prejudiced asshole. But the fact is, some schools are “rough” and some neighborhoods are “bad”.
Of course, there are plenty of “bad” schools which are undeserving of the reputation, and there are some parents who will label a school “bad” because it has brown people in it. The best way to find out if yours is actually bad is, as people have said, to visit it, more than once, and to talk to both teachers and other parents. Use the ratings websites you can find by Google to see what other parents and former students have to say (and take their tone and grammar into account when you weigh opinions). Do check out the test scores - bad tests scores may not necessarily indicate a bad school, especially if they’re low scores but showing improvement over previous years, but good test scores - better than the state and area average, do generally indicate a good school.
I spent a lot of energy convincing myself that I could be the great parent who advocated for my son and so his going to a “bad” school just wouldn’t really be that big of a deal. The reality, however, is that some schools *are *as bad as you’ve heard on the news. As my son’s Biology teacher explained to me, at least 20%, and usually 30-50% of her students weren’t in class on any one day. Many were truant, some were out for court dates or meeting with their parole officers, others were incarcerated, or didn’t have daycare, or were arrested on their way to school, and some were called out of her class by security guards and police, or angry “babymamas”, or parents who needed them to go to work today. There is simply no way to teach a Biology class to 30 students when you’ve only got 20 of them, and a different 20 each time. Whatever you do on Monday needs to be repeated on Tuesday, and then “reviewed” on Wednesday… I’m sorry, but *no *teacher can overcome that in today’s educational environment where you need every second you can spare from standardized testing to actually teach content. The kids who aren’t there miss the content covered, and the kids who are there get 1/3 of the content they were supposed to get through by the end of the semester and are bored into a stupor from constant repetition.
So that’s the *academic *problem which low socioeconomics brings to the school, completely aside from outdated textbooks and lack of pencils. The physical and psychological dangers are also too real in some schools. I think I’ve bored everyone here already with the tale of my son coming to me in tears as a 9th or 10th grader, asking me if I had any idea how it felt to be “the only white boy in a class of gangbangers watching Roots”. He was also outright assaulted at least once that he told me of, and several others that I suspect, but he won’t talk about. Some a-hole literally walked up and punched him out of the blue - and this was witnessed and verified by a teacher and a security guard who just shrugged and told me there was really nothing they could do about it, since the hallway was so crowded they “lost sight” of the guy right after. He was a total stranger to my son, and no one else who witnessed it would provide the kid’s name.
I watched my son’s body language change, as a previously strong, confident kid took on the demeanor of a kid raised in a war zone. He became withdrawn and anxious. He started sneaking alcohol, and while drunk, began to speak about how he was “worthless” and “didn’t deserve good parents like us to love him.” He was diagnosed with depression and PTSD a year and a half after we got him out of there. I have no idea how long it will take to undo the damage I did in my naive quest to be the parent who could “turn the school around,” or even just “make do with the best of a bad situation.”
NOW, all that being said, this was in high school. I think he would have been okay in kindergarten, as even “at-risk” kindergarteners aren’t generally missing class for court dates or assaulting other students in the hallways. But if the OP’s school *is *as bad as my son’s first high school, I would literally do *anything *rather than keep my child in that school for very long, or with older, stronger, angrier classmates.
By osmosis? If they’re using the phrase “trashy morons”, they don’t sound un-snobby to me.
From your previous post:
Poor & grateful–and they prove it by using phrases like “trashy, stupid morons.”
The OP’s kid is facing her first year of school. Kindergarten, not high school. Has the OP actually checked out the place? Or is she rejecting it because some of the kids come from single-parent families & live in a crummy neighborhood–the same one the OP lives in?
If the school visit shows evidence of gang violence, I’d be sympathetic. Otherwise, why doesn’t she consider getting active in the school community & supplementing the kid’s education (if necessary) while trying to sell the house?
Hey, Lorene & BridgetBurke! Stop shitting on lindsaybluth’s thread about her brother!
…that was my phrasing, not theirs. I never implied it was theirs. They actually used phrases like “idiots who don’t care about learning” or “morons who’d rather be smoking pot or stealing”.
And, amusingly enough, many private or admissions-based parochial schools have orders of magnitude more brown kids than a typical suburban school. You had an excellent post overall - it certainly demonstrated what I’ve seen while volunteering in an 11th grade at-risk school in college. I’m very glad your son got out.
ETA: Hey villa! Why don’t you go hang out in the whore house I found you in?
Wow. I don’t even know what that means. I assume I am meant to feel insulted, but I have no idea why. On the one hand I don’t really see anything particularly wrong with being in a whore house. But if I did, then you finding me there would tend to imply you worked there. So I am all confused now.
I think this thread illustrates a more and more common feature of society - namely that on anonymous bulletin boards and blogs - discussion that starts as information-oriented quickly devolves into personal opinion and assaults. Not really good for advancing understanding.
Moderator Warning
lindsaybluth, insults are not permitted in GQ. This is an official warning.
In addition, don’t play junior mod. If you think someone else is threadshitting, report the post; don’t make the accusation in the thread.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Agreed. In any case, since this thread is seeking advice, it’s better suited to IMHO than GQ. But everyone should dial it back.
I’ve been following how this thread is going and hoping something more informative would come of it, but I just can’t get past this phrasing from the OP. Bongmaster, do you not live in this “not very nice” area as well, if your kid is going to the same school as the others? If so, what makes you better than the people right around you? What makes your kids better than theirs?
I think if you could provide some sort of coherent answer to that, we might (might!) get past the judgy-judgy and get back to answering the factual portion of your questions.
It was a joke - mirroring the accusation she had thrown at me. Wasn’t meant to be taken seriously. Apologies for any misunderstanding.
I assumed that was your intent; still it’s better to report a questionable post. To clarify, you were not issued a warning.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
To be fair, I should say I don’t feel remotely insulted by what lindsaybluth said, and I was kinda tugging on her tail. Not sure if it means anything but I don’t think a warning was necessarily warranted.
Whether or not you are insulted by the implication you hang out in whore houses, many people certainly would be, so a warning was warranted. In any case, lindsaybluth has had several recent warnings and has been on notice to be on better behavior. On top of that there is the junior-modding issue.
That said, some of your own remarks, and those of Kimmy_Gibbler, were not really appropriate for GQ either. In the future, please refrain from “tugging at someone’s tail.”
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
That’s not at all what I am saying. We have tons of talented teachers in my school, and we regularly send kids to top colleges. But there are other schools in my district I wouldn’t send a dog to. The only way to know which is which (short of working for the district) is to go visit. Anecdotes about schools are useless: there’s so MANY stories about any school, so much drama, that people can always shape the narrative to match their point.
Afraid of the local kindegarten? That sounds pretty weak. If you think your kid won’t be challenged, supplement what they’re getting at school. This shouldn’t be too hard for even the dumbest parent. Perhaps by the time your number gets picked for the bestest best charter school evah, you might see that your kid is doing just fine where they are.
As someone who was bussed to schools crosstown because of the negative perception of the neighborhood schools, I’ve always been curious what would happen if conscientious parents decided not to flee their “bad” schools and actually worked–alongside other like-minded parents–to improve them. My parents were both highly educated people (my father was even a principal in the posh part of town, go figure), but we lived in a neighborhood where the schools just weren’t good enough…for their kids. And they were right…those schools probably weren’t as good as they could have been. But my parents and others like them certainly weren’t helping the problem by bussing the “good” kids from the neighborhood. Perhaps if we had stayed, the schools would have been more diverse socio-economically, the “good” kids could have rubbed off on the “bad” kids, and teachers would have been held more accountable.
I understand that no one wants to their kid to be a lone pioneer. But still…how do we fix broken schools if everyone constantly runs away from them? And why shouldn’t we be concerned that the mere fact that everyone avoids those schools is exactly why they are broken, thus creating a horrible self-fulfilling prophecy?
Interesting. 1) the other party isn’t offended, 2) freely admits they were egging me on and even 3) states that a warning wasn’t even warranted.
It was a joke, though I need not apologize to villa because she actually understood it. And thanks (villa) for your honest assessment.
I also live in PA. My local schools are pretty bad. I started my oldest in a public school, but transferred him to a Catholic school in the third grade. There were numerous incidents when I wanted to address an issue with the administrators but was, in my opinion blown off (at the public school). I was raised Catholic, my husband, Muslim. He was wary of sending our children to a Catholic school. Neither one of us would send our children to our local pubic schools now, having had experience in both. The Religion classes are not offensive indoctrinate-ly. Please investigate your local Catholic school with an open mind. You may be surprised.
As far as people calling you for living in an area with bad schools and assuming you feel superior, its ridiculous. Yes, I live in ghetto area. Yes, we are poor. We have a pretty large family (five children), we are not addicted to drugs, or alcoholics. It is sad that many of the parents in my neighborhood are, not all, but it is common. A parent struggling with addiction in not likely to make good choices regarding their child’s environment and lifestyle. Of course, there are parents who send their kids to private school who have plenty of issues as well. However, that they make an effort to send them there shows some level of concern. As a friend once told me, if you have two cows and one is sick, you don’t put them together and expect sick to catch healthy.
Tuition is not even close to 7000 a year, and there are many financial aid options. Please keep an open mind and have a look. It is the best thing we have ever done for our children. Good luck to you.
Many colleges, zoos, parks, etc offer “extracurricular” (for want of a better word) educational activities for your kids, many of them free or very low-cost. For example, over the past few months my 9yo daughter has been to Saturday classes in the following subjects (given by various organizations):
- Shark dissecting (this one did cost money - dead sharks ain’t free, you know!)
- Wonders of the World
- Greek Mythology
- Greek and Latin roots (words)
- Lego Engineering (building machines with Legos)
- SciGirls stuff (science for girls)
She loves them - if she doesn’t go for a while, she’ll start asking when her next one is. She loves, loves, loves dissecting stuff, and that is the first thing we have to look for when we review catalogs.
As for the OP, I’ve found in a number of threads about education that there are always people willing to say you’re wrong, your reasons are wrong, etc. Don’t worry about it and do what you think is best. I mean, in a thread about summer educational opportunities I was hit with this nice blast:
“You ever seen A Clockwork Orange? I’d do that, but with educational videos. If you’re looking for a good deal on straighjackets, maybe try Craigslist.”
'Cause, you know, GOD FORBID a child should spend a summer day learning about something. :rolleyes:
I’m not sure what the options are like in Pennsylvania, but her in California my son is in 7th grade this year, and his schooling history looks like this:
Kindergarten and First Grade he went to Parochial School. Kindergarten was fine, but his 1st grade teacher didn’t know how to handle him or the half dozen other kids in the class that weren’t “perfect little angels”. When there was some shakeup with the Administration, and this teacher, who was going to become the vice-principal the next year, started talking about having the school psychologist examine him to see if perhaps there was ‘something we could do to help him concentrate better’, we decided instead of medicating our child to compensate for her shortcomings, we’d just go elsewhere.
After looking at a bunch of options, we would up Homeschooling for 2nd and 3rd Grade. He was actually enrolled in a local Charter School that had an extensive support system for homeschoolers, so technically he went to Public School for those two years. We had an advisor who helped with curricula, and they offered a number of classes both at and away from the school. Our son took art, music and Taekwondo classes, and my wife did the bulk of the ‘schooling’.
After 3rd Grade he decided he wanted to ‘go to a real school’. We sent him to the local Public Elementary School just s few blocks away. We had avoided this school years earlier for reasons that escape me now, but had absolutely no complaints once we actually visited the school and got to know the teachers and staff. It was a great school and he woudl still be there, except that it was K-5 only.
So starting in 6th grade he is at a local Middle/High School. His school is actually a Charter School that has an affiliation with the Law School at University of the Pacific, so it’s a Public School, but they do things a bit differently from the ‘regular’ Public Schools.
My point is, there are lots of options, and your decision now does not need to be ‘permanent’. keep an open mind and look around for ‘alternative solutions’ if you aren’t finding what you are looking for. And if you have to ‘settle’ right now, that doesn’t mean you can’t change your mind next year if the situation changes.