# Opus Dei Apologist Writes OpEd, Lemur's Mind Boggles **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183 "2006-06-02T19:12:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/1 "2006-06-02T19:12:23Z")
I was pointed to this via Andrew Sullivan: > **[Opinion | Opus Dei's Box-Office Triumph (Published 2006)](https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/opinion/02fortunato.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)** > > As a member of Opus Dei, I would like to thank Dan Brown and Ron Howard for "The Da Vinci Code." > [@](#): > > For the record, I do wear a spiked metal band on my leg for a couple of hours a day just like the movie’s murderous Opus Dei numerary, Silas (that’s always the first question). But I do not wear a robe, except at graduation ceremonies. I’m an English professor at a state university and am finishing a book titled “Modernist Aesthetics and Consumer Culture in the Writings of Oscar Wilde.” So much for stereotypes. So let’s see. You’re a sex-hating english professor who lives with a bunch of other men and is into corporal mortification, aesthetics, fashion, consumer culture, and the writings of Oscar Wilde. Yeah, that really demolishes those stereotypes. For varying definitions of “demolishes”. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/2 "2006-06-02T19:43:59Z")
For some, particularly large, values of “demolishes.” It does sound like he’s more into the ascetic rejection of all thing fleshly, but wants to point out that he it doesn’t consume him completely, thus he writes about Oscar Wilde. If you’re looking for a way to make fun of him, though, it sounds pretty bad. And you should be looking for a way to make fun of anyone in Opes Dei. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/3 "2006-06-02T19:46:44Z")
I’m not going to sign up with NYT just to read this article (I’m lazy today), but based on the snippet you presented, how do we know he’s A) sex-hating or B) fashion-conscious? Also, my stereotype of an Opus Dei numerary would tend towards prim and conservative – this professor sounds rather liberal, based on the scanty evidence in the OP. So where’s the beef, so to speak? ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/4 "2006-06-02T19:47:37Z")
**Lemur** writes crappy Pit thread, **Wolfian** ’s mind boggles. Just what the heck are you getting at? No, seriously. What was your point in this? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/5 "2006-06-02T20:00:19Z")
Look, chaps, I can’t quote the entire article for you. But this guy has a few psychosexual issues to come to terms with. Fashion: > [@](#): > > My academic work has been in the area of consumer culture, specifically the fashion world and its impact on art. Sex-hating, lives with other men: > [@](#): > > I joined Opus Dei as a numerary, a member who has committed to celibacy and lives in an Opus Dei center, when I turned 18. Wears Daisy Dukes: > [@](#): > > I’ve even made a point of wearing shorts around so that people can see that the thigh band, the cilice, leaves no marks. Topping from the bottom: > [@](#): > > I have explained what a relief it is to make my life uncomfortable, how liberating it is to unplug from the consumerist, instant-gratification culture that dominates us. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/6 "2006-06-02T20:11:45Z")
Sex-hating? Psycho-sexual issues? Dude, it’s called _self-discipline_. He sounds pretty solid to me. I was celibate and lived with other men from the time I went to college until I married at 31 and I _assure_ you, I do not hate sex. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/7 "2006-06-02T20:16:19Z")
Did you strap metal spikes to your thigh every day to mortify your flesh? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/8 "2006-06-02T20:16:44Z")
Having read here and elsewhere that Dan Brown’s depiction of Opus Dei was ridiculously out of joint with reality - which I have no problem accepting, as it obviously diverges from the truth in a lot of ways - I was very surprised to read that they actually DO use the “discipline” and the cilice. What is “boggling” **Lemur866** is the fact that this guy, in his effort to write a piece to the effect that Opus Dei isn’t the screwed up, conspiratorial, psychotic organization we’ve all read about, has said some things that are pretty funny and self-incriminating. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/9 "2006-06-02T20:20:59Z")
Around here we have a word for celebate men who live in same sex communities, practice corporal mortification and reject consumerism. We call them “monks”. I’m joining in on not fully understanding what you’re pitting here. Are you saying that the guy seems like he’s gay to you, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/10 "2006-06-02T20:24:33Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Are you saying that the guy seems like he’s gay to you, is that it? Captain, he’s as gay as 8 guys fucking 5 guys. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/11 "2006-06-02T20:27:30Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Did you strap metal spikes to your thigh every day to mortify your flesh? No, but I respect it. How is it different from, say, fasting? Same idea. In fact, maybe I’ll look into getting one of those for next Lent. And I also meant to say that accusing him of wearing “Daisy Dukes” when he says he’s worn shorts is sort of grasping at straws. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/12 "2006-06-02T20:29:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Captain, he’s as gay as 8 guys fucking 5 guys. So he’s .63 gay? (8 into 5, ya know 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/13 "2006-06-02T20:30:58Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Captain, he’s as gay as 8 guys fucking 5 guys. And even if he were gay (which is pure speculation)… so what? If he’s celibate, what the hell difference would it make? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/14 "2006-06-02T20:33:53Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > No, but I respect it. How is it different from, say, fasting? Fasting is a mild form of corporal mortification. For reasons that, I guess, escape the both of us driving a bracelet of metal spikes into your leg for several hours is considered a little more extreme. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/15 "2006-06-02T20:39:13Z")
The guy very obviously does have some very complex “psychosexual” issues which he chooses to deal with in a way that would not work for me. According to my lights, this guy has some serious issues of repression and denial. According to his lights, however, everything’s peachy. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/16 "2006-06-02T20:40:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Captain, he’s as gay as 8 guys fucking 5 guys. Well, that is pretty gay. But honestly, you don’t know that. All you know is that he lives a celebate life in an all male community, and studies Oscar Wilde’s attitudes about Victorian consumerism. While it’s true that Wilde was bisexual (and sentenced to prison for sodomy), that doesn’t mean that everyone who studies him is also gay. And while he lives in an all male environment, they’re all celebate, so presumably, no one is doing anything sexually to anyone. And, as I mentioned before, single-sex religious orders aren’t uncommon, and they’re part of Catholicism, ever since the first convents and monastic communities. As for the corporal mortification, I’ve never heard any specific association between gayness and masochism. That stereotype is new to me. And physical self-punishment also has a long tradition in Catholicism, from extended fasts to the penitential groups that flog themselves in processions. Even Thomas More (who was executed by Henry VIII over the divorce of Katherine of Aragon and because of his refusal to abandon Catholicism) wore a hair shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/17 "2006-06-02T20:52:48Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, that is pretty gay. But honestly, you don’t know that. All you know is that he lives a celebate life in an all male community, and studies Oscar Wilde’s attitudes about Victorian consumerism. While it’s true that Wilde was bisexual (and sentenced to prison for sodomy), that doesn’t mean that everyone who studies him is also gay. I’m sorry, I’m getting lost here. Is this “I’m being very literal to make **Lemur866** look like an idiot,” or “I’m being very literal because I’m the sort of person who takes things very literally?” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/18 "2006-06-02T20:58:05Z")
If this guy ain’t gay, then no one is gay. And I’m gay, so there you go. The Catholic priesthood is traditionally a refuge for highly religious gay men, who must find a way to live a celibate life because their church won’t let them live a sexual life. This guy has checked off all those boxes except the one marked “priest.” And of course it’s speculation. All gaydar readings are speculation. But like any other kind of speculation, there are varying degrees of certainty. This guy, if he ain’t as gay as a priest in drag, then I’ll eat YOUR hat. Sounds pretty clear to me that this guy thinks he has something to prove to his father, and this is how he’s doing it. On the plus side, he’s put so much effort into proving to his dad that he’s not gay, that he has some slack to work with: enough to be a scholar of both fashion AND Oscar Wilde, and still keep his dad shrouded in wool. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/19 "2006-06-02T21:00:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m sorry, I’m getting lost here. Is this “I’m being very literal to make **Lemur866** look like an idiot,” or “I’m being very literal because I’m the sort of person who takes things very literally?” This is mostly, “I’m being very literal because I’m gay myself, and I’m tired of assholes making accusing insinuations about people being gay (like being gay is a bad thing or something to laugh about) based on tired old stereotypes.” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2006, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183/20 "2006-06-02T21:25:49Z")
Sorry, **Lissener** , I didn’t realize you were qualified to conduct psychological evaluations over long distances via newspaper op-ed pieces. Apparently you know his father, too, so I stand corrected. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that this guy couldn’t be any gayer on the gayest day of his life if he had an electified gaying machine. So what? Does that somehow invalidate his asceticism, as opposed to someone who was heterosexual? Can he not be gay _and_ devout without being a nutcase? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opus-dei-apologist-writes-oped-lemurs-mind-boggles/359183.md?page=2)