# ©opyright Question: Could I Sell a Used (Fully Loaded) iPod for More Money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862 "2004-06-11T20:08:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/1 "2004-06-11T20:08:50Z")
At the risk of further muddying this forum: I’m posting in GQ under the assumption not all legal / copyright questions are matters of debate or humble opinion. Questions regarding the sale of a used iPod (.mp3 player) with 10,000 songs dowloaded on it vs. the sale a used iPod with no songs on a site like eBay: **Could someone selling a fully loaded iPod and ask a higher than market price**? =\> Or for that matter, a 200 disk CD player fully loaded with 200 CD-R’s. =\> Or come to think of it, a used PC with an unscrubbed ‘My Music’ folder. My hunch is not legal - but only vaguely so. My guess is someone’s probably tried it already. Not that anyone could make a windfall doing it, illegal mp3 files are readily available anyway. Whether or not they were batted down would only be a matter of speculation. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/2 "2004-06-11T20:09:57Z")
In a word - No. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/3 "2004-06-11T20:20:26Z")
Yeah, you already knew the answer to this. Unless you’ve produced all the music on the iPod yourself and own all the copyrights, you don’t have the right to resell the music. Even the case where you’ve paid to download the music legally, left the copy protection schemes in place, \* and \* deleted all your other copies of the tunes is pretty murky – as you’ve guessed, someone has tried EBaying a song downloaded from iTunes ([http://news.com.com/2100-1027\_3-5071566.html?tag=fd\_top](http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5071566.html?tag=fd_top)). You could probably get away with selling a service where someone hands you an iPod, a list of tunes, and their CD collection and you sell your time ripping and loading (legal) music onto it or downloading the tunes from a on-line music store. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/4 "2004-06-11T22:28:47Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Even the case where you’ve paid to download the music legally, left the copy protection schemes in place, \* and \* deleted all your other copies of the tunes is pretty murky Isn’t this the same as buying a Will Smith CD, and later selling it to a used Music store, and then they go around and resell it? I don’t see how it’s different just because it’s a file on some type of permanent medium. You buy it, you own it, you should be able to sell it, IMO. Or for that matter selling my Will Smith CD on eBay… How is it different? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/5 "2004-06-11T22:31:28Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > I don’t see how it’s different just because it’s a file on some type of permanent medium. :smack: Translate that to: I don’t see the difference between buying a file and owning it, and buying a CD and owning it. Why would eBay reject one, and not the other? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/6 "2004-06-11T22:34:34Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Isn’t this the same as buying a Will Smith CD, and later selling it to a used Music store, and then they go around and resell it? I don’t see how it’s different just because it’s a file on some type of permanent medium. You buy it, you own it, you should be able to sell it, IMO. > > Or for that matter selling my Will Smith CD on eBay… How is it different? Well, here’s a hypothetical. Suppose in the EULA (End User License Agreement) that no one reads when they buy software (or music), it says that you as the buyer agree not to resell the music. In that case, it would be different because you’d have agreed to a (probably) legally binding contract not to re-sell it. I don’t know if the EULA for online music stores contains such a clause, but it wouldn’t surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/7 "2004-06-11T22:35:13Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Isn’t this the same as buying a Will Smith CD, and later selling it to a used Music store, and then they go around and resell it? I don’t see how it’s different just because it’s a file on some type of permanent medium. You’re not selling the file…You’re selling _copies_ of that file. I don’t know iTunes well, but I’d guarantee that somewhere in the small print you sign up to when purchasing is that you cannot resell the rights to the file. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/8 "2004-06-11T22:47:09Z")
Reply murky. Try again later. It’s an issue of the iTunes EULA. It could be legal, though more likely, it is not. It all depnds on what basis you can download onto the iPod. Does it say “personal use only”? Are there limits to how many times you can download? Is there anything forbidding you from disposing of the iPod as you see fit? And, of couse, has this been challenged in court? (I am assuming, BTW, that these are legally downloaded files. If you don’t have the right to download, then you don’t have the right to copy and it is a violation.) Now, most likely, the wording of the EULA prohibits you from selling or giving away the music. However, if there were no prohibition, and you were allowed to copy the music freely to the iPod (and, I know that other music services allow multiple copies onto a portable device), then you can do what you want with the filled iPod. Whether you’re making a profit or not is not a concern of copyright. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/9 "2004-06-11T23:14:16Z")
I suppose if you sold the iPod with the original CDs that you ripped all of its music from, _and_ wiped those MP3 files from your own computer, you’d be okay. But really, would that be worth the hassle? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/opyright-question-could-i-sell-a-used-fully-loaded-ipod-for-more-money/249862/10 "2004-06-12T02:12:29Z")
Even if there is a clause in the iTunes EULA forbidding you from selling the files you buy, it might not be enforceable. [First Sale Doctrine](http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/first_sale_doctrine.html) > [@](#): > > US courts upheld doctrine of first sale in Softman v. Adobe [1] and Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc when applied to software even if the software contains an End User License Agreement (EULA) prohibiting resale. In this case Softman, after purchasing bundled software from Adobe, unbundled it and then resold the component programs. The courts ruled that consumers can resell bundled software, no matter what the EULA stipulates Granted, that case was about software, not music, but I don’t see why music would be treated differently.