# Oral Commandos to Baghdad **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993 "2005-07-04T06:17:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/1 "2005-07-04T06:17:12Z")
> [@](#): > > The “Truth Tour” has been pulled together by the conservative Web cast radio group [Rightalk.com](http://Rightalk.com) and Move America Forward, a non-profit conservative group backed by a Republican-linked public relations firm in California. > > “The reason why we are doing it is we are sick and tired of seeing and hearing headlines by the mainstream media about our defeat in Iraq,” Melanie Morgan, a talk radio host (search) for KSFO Radio in San Francisco and co-chair of Move America Forward, said. > > Morgan said the media is “imposing a Vietnam template on this war.” > > “This is not Vietnam,” she said. “War is war, and it’s dangerous, and the killing is taking place all of the time. At the same time, where there is danger, there is success and there is a mainstream media that is determined to shut out that success.” > > She said the group is going to Iraq to support American troops, who see a disconnection with what they experience and what’s being reported in the United States. She said the incongruence is leading to “morale problems.” (Pasted from _Eschaton_, original story at: [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161463,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161463,00.html)) So let me get this straight: they already know what they’re going to find. Based on reliable information, they are _already_ certain that “the media” distorts the truth! Haven’t gotten on the damned airplane, already got their story written: “Disloyal Liberal Media Distorts Truth, Undermines Morale”. (Can that concentration of douchebagitude warp space-time into a singularity?..so they’re just flying along and just disappear, vanish from our dimension to another inhabited by gay brain sucking zombies…) And I could swear I remember a very similar story from the Viet Nam years, another such gaggle of punditti. Same story, going to find the real truth about the war, how swell things are going, school painting up 100% over last month. Is there a special kind of _deja vu_ thats when you see it again and it sucked the first time? You’ve seen this movie, it bites, and you don’t have money for popcorn and the doors won’t open, you can’t get out the doors won’t open, and you pound on the doors… I could Oliver Stone this, like they’ve gotten the secret communique from the Ministry of Truth: “War going into shitter, start blaming defeatist liberals.” But Occams Rooster says its simpler than that, they really are that stupid. They honestly believe what they’re saying. The beleive they will fly to Iraq and see the truth, and they will know its the truth because they already know what the truth is. But if they go and see it at first hand, then they _really_ extra-special know its true, and know they’re experts This is a good time to mention that the donor base for the Mother’s March Against Cognitive Dissonance is anemic, due to unforseen circumstances. The affirmative program to hire actual CD victims as staff personnel, while well-intended, proved to be ill-advised. But this incident clearly underlines the gravity of the situation, re: CD, the demise of the Republic, etc, ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/2 "2005-07-04T06:52:30Z")
The title made me think it was about something else ☹ It’s a real bitch about the ‘investigative journalism’ though. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/3 "2005-07-04T06:59:18Z")
Read the full story, you’ll be making noises like a wookie shitting a pineapple. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/4 "2005-07-04T07:06:05Z")
I did read it, I was just being lazy with my response. My outrage vat should have some free space within the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/5 "2005-07-04T07:16:15Z")
\*\*Outrage point number 1- \*\* The bitch who is spearheading this fucking mission is a right-wing talking head from a local station and I’ve never even heard a peep about her. \*\*Outrage point number 2- \*\* These idiots are going to camp _inside a secure military camp_, in order to “report the truth”? How in fuck’s name does that work out? We have journalists in the field reporting that the war is a loss, people risking life and limb, and a couple propagandists are going to throw fucking “thank you” barbecues and camp inside military forts where there is no risk and no story to be had? Absolutely astounding. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/6 "2005-07-04T08:14:49Z")
I guess they’ll find out that the liberal media is _planting_ evidence danger, like dead bodies and wreckage… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/7 "2005-07-04T12:01:23Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > \*\*\*\*Outrage point number 2- \*\* These idiots are going to camp _inside a secure military camp_, in order to “report the truth”? How in fuck’s name does that work out? We have journalists in the field reporting that the war is a loss, people risking life and limb, and a couple propagandists are going to throw fucking “thank you” barbecues and camp inside military forts where there is no risk and no story to be had? “Evidence that there is no insurgency abounds. In fact, we didn’t even _see_ an Iraqi face.” ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/8 "2005-07-04T16:54:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …And I could swear I remember a very similar story from the Viet Nam years, another such gaggle of punditti. Same story, going to find the real truth about the war, how swell things are going, school painting up 100% over last month. Is there a special kind of _deja vu_ thats when you see it again and it sucked the first time? You’ve seen this movie, it bites, and you don’t have money for popcorn and the doors won’t open, you can’t get out the doors won’t open, and you pound on the doors… Hardly the only summer re-run: [I Wrote Bush’s War Words – in 1965](http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/latimes000A.html) – Daniel Ellsberg > [@](#): > > President Bush’s explanation Tuesday night for staying the course in Iraq evoked in me a sense of familiarity, but not nostalgia. I had heard virtually all of his themes before, almost word for word, in speeches delivered by three presidents I worked for: John F. Kennedy, Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard M. Nixon. Not with pride, I recognized that I had proposed some of those very words myself. > > Drafting a speech on the Vietnam War for Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara in July 1965, I had the same task as Bush’s speechwriters in June 2005: how to rationalize and motivate continued public support for a hopelessly stalemated, unnecessary war our president had lied us into. The more things change, the more they remain the same. * * * > [@Gawd](#): > > We have journalists in the field reporting that the war is a loss, people risking life and limb, and a couple propagandists are going to throw fucking “thank you” barbecues and camp inside military forts where there is no risk and no story to be had? I agree with your premise, **Sam** , but truth be told, there’s a dearth of jornous on the field precisely because of how dangerous conditions are on the ground. Other than a few inbeds, most of the correspondents for the MSM seem to be stuck inside the Green Zone with many of them relying on a network of informants to provide their news. As [Farnaz Fassihi](http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=2020), a Wall Street Journal correspondent in Baghdad, wrote in in an e-mail to her friends at the end of last year: > [@](#): > > \*\* “Being a foreign correspondent in Baghdad these days,” she wrote, “is like being under virtual house arrest… I avoid going to people’s homes and never walk in the streets. I can’t go grocery shopping any more, can’t eat in restaurants, can’t strike a conversation with strangers, can’t look for stories, can’t drive in any thing but a full armored car, can’t go to scenes of breaking news, can’t be stuck in traffic, can’t speak English outside, can’t take a road trip, can’t say I’m an American, can’t linger at checkpoints, can’t be curious about what people are saying, doing, feeling. And can’t and can’t.” Citing the fall of Falluja, the revolt of Moqtada al-Sadr, and the spread of the insurgency to every part of the country, Fassihi declared that “despite President Bush’s rosy assessments, Iraq remains a disaster. If under Saddam it was a ‘potential’ threat, under the Americans it has been transformed to ‘imminent and active threat,’ a foreign policy failure bound to haunt the United States for decades to come… The genie of terrorism, chaos and mayhem has been unleashed onto this country as a result of American mistakes and it can’t be put back into a bottle.”\*\* Oh well. Since McDonald’s, BK and KFC are already there, can’t say I am overly surprised that Kool-Aid wants to follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/9 "2005-07-04T17:07:08Z")
I’m sorry, I just can’t understand your level of vitriol over this. Basically, the question as to how we’re doing in Iraq is indeed a valid point for debate. Given most objective measures, such as how many soldier or Iraqi civilian deaths that we’ve suffered in a given month compared to 2004, the distribution of utilities like electricity or water, oil production, etc., it seems as if things are going poorly. However, it isn’t any sort of inexorable law of physics that we will fail in whatever we’re trying to accomplish in Iraq. These people obviously have a different viewpoint on the progress of our invasion compared to you. Compare these “reporters” to the “documentary film maker” Michael Moore. Both did work in Iraq by going in with a definite viewpoint and a story to sell. Both have or will gather evidence that supports this viewpoint. The true measure of their reporting will be if they assimilate large amounts of information and present the totality of what they found. If their convoys are attacked by an IED, hopefully they won’t neglect to mention that. If they want to go there and report that Iraqi infrastructure is improving, that Iraqi’s generally support the occupation, and Iraqis are united in their desire for a liberal democracy and against the insurgency, they have every right to do so provided that they come up with evidence for their claims and don’t violate any journalism ethics in doing so. That whole thing about whosever’s ox is being gored and what not… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/10 "2005-07-04T17:31:39Z")
From the linked article in the OP: > [@](#): > > **We are Americans first and journalists second** , as opposed to the crop of ‘pinkos’ that tell us on the news every night that America is going to hell in a hand basket. (bolding mine) With that attitude in mind, what do you think the odds are these people are actually going to “report” anything other than pro-war propaganda? But hey! No need to answer, keep telling yourself that American MSM is in the hands of ‘pinkos’ as opposed to BushCo’s back-pocket and that’s why things “appear” to be so dire in Iraq. In fact, using the same metric and [in light of their recent comments](http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/061405A.shtml), we can safely say that your COs on the ground are in on the conspiracy. [The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060921/) Now, there’s a rerun I’d actually watch again. BTW, I am sorry too – but for entirely different reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/11 "2005-07-04T17:41:04Z")
> [@threemae](#): > > … “documentary film maker” Michael Moore… You know, it’s been debated enough times on these boards and you’ve been here long enough to know that Michael Moore makes documentaries. Being unbiased is not making a documentary. In fact, even though I think he’s a crappy grandstanding maker of documentaries, I prefer to know thebias, as opposed to someone claiming a documentary that’s totally objective. There ain’t no such animal. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/12 "2005-07-04T17:42:40Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > With that attitude in mind, what do you think the odds are these people are actually going to “report” anything other than pro-war propaganda? But hey! No need to answer, keep telling yourself that American MSM is in the hands of ‘pinkos’ as opposed to BushCo’s back-pocket and that’s why things “appear” to be so dire in Iraq. In fact, using the same metric and [in light of their recent comments](http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/061405A.shtml), we can safely say that your COs on the ground are in on the conspiracy. Okay, but how is any of this any different from the work of Michael Moore, whom people like **Elucidator** and many others on this board lauded quite loudly and excused his bias in reporting because, “people knew what they were getting.” Well, when you listen to a radio program called Righttalk, you certainly know what you’re getting and the media isn’t even bound to illusions of centrism like documentary film making. You have your arguements, they have theirs, now they’re headed to Iraq to find evidence and support for their position. I give this Pitting a 1.2. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/13 "2005-07-04T18:07:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The title made me think it was about something else ☹ Me too, although the kind of oral commando I was picturing would probably improve troop morale more than this tour. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/14 "2005-07-04T18:15:50Z")
A couple of quibbles, **3**. Minor points, really, but that’s the trouble with quibbles… You would be hard pressed to find an example of me “lauding” Mr. Moore. The reason isn’t complex, I don’t much like Mr. Moore. I tried to read one of his books and was reminded of Dororthy Parker: “This is not a book to be set aside lightly, but hurled with great force.” Don’t think he’s wrong, mind you, I just don’t like him. Haven’t seen any of his movies. You’re peeing on the wrong tree. There is no need to capitalize the “e” in my name. It has been suggested that this is characteristic of the sweet bashfulness and unassuming modesty that so informs my personality. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/15 "2005-07-04T18:21:16Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [I Wrote Bush’s War Words – in 1965](http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/latimes000A.html) – Daniel Ellsberg > The more things change, the more they remain the same. > . I was impressed with the movie “The Pentagon Papers” and did a lot of reading about that period. We can always hope that what happened to Ellsburg when he went to Vietnam might happen to some of these truth tellers when they see it first hand. Like the Senator? who recently recanted his support of the war. I’ve talked to several people who have done civilian trips to Iraq and they consistantly say it’s not as bad as it is potrayed. Chris Matthews did a show from here in NAshville and a civilian stood up who had just returned and told about the progress being made. There is no doubt in my mind that along with the horror their are some great things going on that the US is part of. Candles in the darkness so to speak. Nothing wrong with hearing about them unless the rhetoric is being used to misrepresent the big picture. The real question facing us now is can we succeed at all and what will it cost us? No gaurentees either way. I’ve always said you can’t bring democracy to a country until the majority of people there want it and are willing to fight for it themselves. That seems to be the case in Iraq. We’re being assured that eventually the Iraqi forces will defend their own country. I don’t see it happeneing because there’s not enough people who believe it is their own country. They won’t believe that until we are gone. Is it reasonable for Iraqi’s to think that their current leaders are figureheads for the US. I think so. Add to that the economic issues. We might be able to get other countries involved but that would mean giving up billions in profit to them. Better to just give speeches while the money rolls in. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/16 "2005-07-04T18:24:47Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > Me too, although the kind of oral commando I was picturing would probably improve troop morale more than this tour. 😃 :o 😃 :o 😃 :o 😃 We could call it the “Clinton” method 😃 Just send over some Har “monicas” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/17 "2005-07-04T18:32:00Z")
They got oral sex in Tennessee? Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/18 "2005-07-04T18:54:41Z")
Ahhhh. There’s the outrage. > [@threemae](#): > > I’m sorry, I just can’t understand your level of vitriol over this. Journalistic integrity. > [@threemae](#): > > Basically, the question as to how we’re doing in Iraq is indeed a valid point for debate. Ideally supported by a full survey of the facts rather than a propaganda piece. Wouldn’t you agree? > [@threemae](#): > > These people obviously have a different viewpoint on the progress of our invasion compared to you. Pesky fact based community! Why can’t everybody just get behind the war and say it’s going well? :rolleyes: See… they may have a ‘different viewpoint’, but if it’s not informed by the facts, then it’s worthless. They’ve already said that they’re going out to look for good news. If that isn’t a glaring admission of selection bias, I don’t know what is. Again, people are entitled to their own opinions, they are not entitled to their own facts. This ‘journalistic’ mission is clearly one designed to ‘fix the facts’ around a conclusion they’ve already drawn. I seem to remember that kind of duplicitous bullshit getting us into the mess we’re in, in the first place. > [@threemae](#): > > Both have or will gather evidence that supports this viewpoint. Isn’t it revolting? Or are you constructing a large portion of your argument based on a tu quoque fallacy? > [@threemae](#): > > That whole thing about whosever’s ox is being gored and what not… Shit, piss, and vinegar! Do you think all those other journalists who go over have an agenda? I’d wager a small fraction do, but most of them just want to get the story. The only ox that’s being gored is Bush’s pipe dream. And it’s getting gored because it’s not the truth. Fuck this ‘fair and balanced’ propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/19 "2005-07-05T06:15:32Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > \*\*Outrage point number 1- \*\* The bitch who is spearheading this fucking mission is a right-wing talking head from a local station and I’ve never even heard a peep about her… This bugged me, thinking, shit, how many thousands of these can there be, I can rattle off about ten rabid-radio icons. Now, I’m not that up to date, cutting edgewise, but isn’t “webcast” radio regular radio’s retarded cousin? Must be one of those “grassroots” kind of things. Yeah, that must be it. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993/20 "2005-07-05T07:07:06Z")
Congratulations on another backslapping circle jerk. Without you guys, we’d never be made aware of anything. Please wash your hands and wipe your chins before returning to something useful. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-commandos-to-baghdad/310993.md?page=2)