# Oral Roberts U. is going DOWN!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773 "2007-10-06T18:09:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/1 "2007-10-06T18:09:02Z")
[It’s absolutely heartwarming](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/10/scandal_brewing_at_oral_robert.php): > [@](#): > > Twenty years ago, televangelist Oral Roberts said he was reading a spy novel when God appeared to him and told him to raise $8 million for Roberts’ university, or else he would be “called home.” > > Now, his son, Oral Roberts University President Richard Roberts, says God is speaking again, telling him to deny lurid allegations in a lawsuit that threatens to engulf this 44-year-old Bible Belt college in scandal. > > Richard Roberts is accused of illegal involvement in a local political campaign and lavish spending at donors’ expense, including numerous home remodeling projects, use of the university jet for his daughter’s senior trip to the Bahamas, and a red Mercedes convertible and a Lexus SUV for his wife, Lindsay. > > She is accused of dropping tens of thousands of dollars on clothes, awarding nonacademic scholarships to friends of her children and sending scores of text messages on university-issued cell phones to people described in the lawsuit as “underage males.” Details: > [@](#): > > Richard Roberts, according to the suit, asked a professor in 2005 to use his students and university resources to aid a county commissioner’s bid for Tulsa mayor. Such involvement would violate state and federal law because of the university’s nonprofit status. Up to 50 students are alleged to have worked on the campaign. > > The professors also said their dismissals came after they turned over to the board of regents a copy of a report documenting moral and ethical lapses on the part of Roberts and his family. The internal document was prepared by Stephanie Cantese, Richard Roberts’ sister-in-law, according to the lawsuit. > > An ORU student repairing Cantese’s laptop discovered the document and later provided a copy to one of the professors. > > It details dozens of alleged instances of misconduct. Among them: > > \_ A longtime maintenance employee was fired so that an underage male friend of Mrs. Roberts could have his position. > > \_ Mrs. Roberts \_ who is a member of the board of regents and is referred to as ORU’s “first lady” on the university’s Web site \_ frequently had cell-phone bills of more than $800 per month, with hundreds of text messages sent between 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. to “underage males who had been provided phones at university expense.” > > \_ The university jet was used to take one daughter and several friends on a senior trip to Orlando, Fla., and the Bahamas. The $29,411 trip was billed to the ministry as an “evangelistic function of the president.” > > \_ Mrs. Roberts spent more than $39,000 at one Chico’s clothing store alone in less than a year, and had other accounts in Texas and California. She also repeatedly said, “As long as I wear it once on TV, we can charge it off.” The document cites inconsistencies in clothing purchases and actual usage on TV. > > \_ Mrs. Roberts was given a white Lexus SUV and a red Mercedes convertible by ministry donors. > > \_ University and ministry employees are regularly summoned to the Roberts’ home to do the daughters’ homework. > > \_ The university and ministry maintain a stable of horses for exclusive use by the Roberts’ children. > > \_ The Roberts’ home has been remodeled 11 times in the past 14 years. Don’t’cha just love the raft of scandals we’ve had over the past year or so involving those claiming to be guardians and protectors of our moral values? I think this has the potential to go to the top of the list. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/2 "2007-10-06T18:20:04Z")
How are they “going down”. There’s a lawsuit in progress. That’s “going down”? Seems to me that, at most, a change in management might take place. There’s too much invested in that place for the owners, whoever that is, to just shut it down. And what was that student doing stealing a private correspondence off someone’s computer and giving it to other people? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/3 "2007-10-06T18:24:55Z")
Don’tcha know that only those who are in a constant state of struggle with their own sinful nature can guide the rest of us poor non-struggling non-sinners in what is truly moral and good? They have personally wrestled with the devil so that they can know his stripes (and you don’t have to)! Hallelujah! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/4 "2007-10-06T18:26:19Z")
[QUOTE=Icarus] Don’tcha know that only those who are in a constant state of struggle with their own sinful nature can guide the rest of us poor non-struggling non-sinners in what is truly moral and good? They have personally wrestled with the devil so that they can know his stripes (and you don’t have to)! Hallelujah! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I see the light, brother. I see the light!! Praise JE-sus. Praise His holy name!!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/5 "2007-10-06T18:27:43Z")
A _university jet_? Perhaps I’m naive, but is this common? Does Harvard have its own Gulfstream V? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/6 "2007-10-06T18:28:10Z")
I feel sorry for the Roberts…if they have lived through 11 home remodels in the past 14 years, they are clearly insane, and should be pitied, not scorned. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/7 "2007-10-06T18:35:24Z")
Serious question, here. The OP quotes the linked article with: > [@](#): > > Richard Roberts, according to the suit, asked a professor in 2005 to use his students and university resources to aid a county commissioner’s bid for Tulsa mayor. Such involvement would violate state and federal law because of the university’s nonprofit status. Up to 50 students are alleged to have worked on the campaign. How is this fundamentally different from compensating students with grades and credit for aiding campaigns for PIRGs? If the answer is “One is legal and one isn’t,” that’s certainly a valid answer. I don’t think I see a moral difference, but that’s not quite the question I’d asked. 😉 As always, my question is **not** intended to be taken in defense of people who are old enough to know better than be fuckwits. I simply have a very skeptical view of the integrity of many people involved with PIRGs. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/8 "2007-10-06T18:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] Serious question, here. The OP quotes the linked article with: How is this fundamentally different from compensating students with grades and credit for aiding campaigns for PIRGs? If the answer is “One is legal and one isn’t,” that’s certainly a valid answer. I don’t think I see a moral difference, but that’s not quite the question I’d asked. 😉 As always, my question is **not** intended to be taken in defense of people who are old enough to know better than be fuckwits. I simply have a very skeptical view of the integrity of many people involved with PIRGs. [/QUOTE] I read the article as implying these students were either assigned to work on the campaign by the university, or in some manner got credit for it. That would be the illegal part of it, as not-for-profits are prohibited from many forms of partisan political activity. Students who volunteer for campaigns outside the framework of their schools are exercising their 1st amendment political rights. They are acting legally. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/9 "2007-10-06T18:47:39Z")
**Boyo Jim** , while I was at UMASS Amherst, one of the recruiting tools for the MassPIRG was that serving in it _would_ get the students class credit towards graduation. My impression had been was that this was pretty common for all the PIRGs. If it’s changed in the years since I was there, or if it was only Massachusetts that was so effed up, ignore me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/10 "2007-10-06T18:50:48Z")
Don’t know any other way to Oral than to go down. Oh come on, you know _somebody_ had to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/11 "2007-10-06T18:51:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How are they “going down”. There’s a lawsuit in progress. That’s “going down”? Seems to me that, at most, a change in management might take place. There’s too much invested in that place for the owners, whoever that is, to just shut it down. And what was that student doing stealing a private correspondence off someone’s computer and giving it to other people? [/QUOTE] I’m just guessing, but as it was some student tech assigned to fix it, it was probably a university computer,so the contents were not private. That’s not to say the student should have handed it to a third party, but it would certainly be arguable that the student was seeking guidance on how to proceed after discovering it, and turned it over to a university official to get informed advice. And the professor giving the document to the board of regents was certainly a legitimate course of action, as the document was apparently dealing with misuse of school resources. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/12 "2007-10-06T18:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I feel sorry for the Roberts…if they have lived through 11 home remodels in the past 14 years, they are clearly insane, and should be pitied, not scorned. 😉 [/QUOTE] Eleven home remodels, and still married? That must be some kind of world record!! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/13 "2007-10-06T18:57:32Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] **Boyo Jim** , while I was at UMASS Amherst, one of the recruiting tools for the MassPIRG was that serving in it _would_ get the students class credit towards graduation. My impression had been was that this was pretty common for all the PIRGs. If it’s changed in the years since I was there, or if it was only Massachusetts that was so effed up, ignore me. 😉 [/QUOTE] I’m certainly no expert in this field, but perhaps there is a distinction to be drawn between a school that offers credits to students for participating in the political process through volunteerism; and one that specifies the student has to work on a specific campaign for a specific person. In my mind that crosses a line. But again, this is a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/14 "2007-10-06T19:02:17Z")
“Well,” said the televangelist, “I’ve been telling the people that God sent us into the world to do good.” Glancing at his consolidated financial statement, he continued, “And I have to say, we’ve done real good!!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/15 "2007-10-06T20:17:52Z")
Vocabulary help, please: what’s a PIRG? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/16 "2007-10-06T20:20:20Z")
People in Religious Groups. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/17 "2007-10-06T20:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Northern Piper] Vocabulary help, please: what’s a PIRG? [/QUOTE] [Public Interest Research Groups](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Interest_Research_Groups) ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/18 "2007-10-06T20:24:33Z")
A PIRG is a [Public Interest Research Group](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIRG). Nominally non-partisan, science based examination of issues. Officially, AIUI each state has its own PIRG. My experience, however is a bit tainted since several of the issues that I remember encountering students campaigning for were based on gross ignorance for any group claiming to be be science-based. (There was a petition a few years ago here in NYS, being pushed by NYPIRG, to make the schools keep a _locally generated_ binder with all the information about toxic chemicals that might be on a school’s ground. Looking over the petition, they were specifically tasking the schools to generate the information, and couldn’t explain why this law would be necessary, since the MSDS forms already required to be present and available upon request to anyone would duplicate all the information, without being locally generated.) ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/19 "2007-10-06T20:37:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] I feel sorry for the Roberts…if they have lived through 11 home remodels in the past 14 years, they are clearly insane, and should be pitied, not scorned. 😉 [/QUOTE] That was my thought, without the winking. Holy flipping Lord, 11 times in 14 years. Who would even want to do that, no matter how much godly money was flowing their way? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773/20 "2007-10-06T20:46:24Z")
Very roughly, nonprofit organizations may advocate for general causes that have political repercussions (e.g., they may advocate for stricter laws against letting dogs run loose), but they may not advocate for specific politicians (e.g., they may not say that a vote for Doobie Jones is a vote for good dog laws). At least, that’s the gist for 501©3 organizations; I’m guessing there’s something similar in effect for other types. It sorta makes sense. If you forbid any sort of political advocacy, it becomes very difficult to police that line (does a homeless shelter cross it when they suggest that the poor deserve assistance? Can a veteran’s group talk about how veterans are underserved after they leave the military?). But forbidding the participation in specific politicians’ campaigns is a much easier line to police. There’s a good moral argument, IMO, for getting rid of tax-exempt status entirely. But if you’re not going to do that, and you are going to distinguish between politicians and charities, it makes sense to draw the line where it’s drawn. As for the ethics of turning over a private document, that’s classic whistleblower material: whistleblowers, IMO, deserve very high levels of protection. Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-roberts-u-is-going-down/421773.md?page=2)