# Oral Sex Question - Is it Sex or a Form of Abstinence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144 "2004-11-29T14:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/21 "2004-11-29T15:54:49Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Well, according to Clinton it doesn’t count. No, according to Clinton, the definition of “sex” or “sexual relations” or whatever the specific phrase was that was put before him in the specific legal proceding did not include oral-genital contact. Clinton was splitting a legal hair, not categorically denying that oral sex is sex. In his deposition, Clinton was presented with this [definition](http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonjonesperjury.html) of "sexual relations: > [@](#): > > For the purposes of this deposition, a person [the deponent, in this case, Clinton] engages in sexual relations when the person [Clinton] knowingly engages in or causes: > > 1. Contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person [that is, any other person, in this case, Monica Lewinsky] with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person [Lewinsky]; > > Contact means intentional touching, either directly or through clothing." Lewinsky performing oral sex upon Clinton does not fall within this definition. People took this legal hair-splitting and expanded it into this whole “oral sex isn’t sex” thing and it’s all just really bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/22 "2004-11-29T16:08:02Z")
Sex, definitely. F, 28. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/23 "2004-11-29T16:51:32Z")
Well, it’s not called “Oral rollerskating”! Yes, it’s sex; IMHO, it’s more intimate than intercourse, and therefore it should be treated with _great_ respect and discretion as to choice of partners. Not that you shouldn’t be picky about who you have intercourse with. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/24 "2004-11-29T19:16:51Z")
I think the question “is it sex?” is confusing. Oral sex is clearly _sexual_, but what does it mean to call it sex or not call it sex? There is a whole spectrum of sexual contact, from kissing to touching to fucking, and I don’t think it makes sense to try for a binary, black and white separation. If someone tells me they had sex with someone else, I’m going to assume they had intercourse, not because of any personal judgement about intercourse, but because that’s the most typical usage of the phrase in my experience. If they have oral sex and refer to it as having sex or making out or fooling around or hooking up or bobbing on someone’s knob, it doesn’t make it any more or less significant. Oral sex can be very intimate, or it can be very casual. Just like intercourse, or kissing, or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/25 "2004-11-29T19:41:19Z")
It is what it is. Whether it’s sex or not is the tail wagging the dog. I think the more important questions are, do you think your kids shouldn’t do it? And then figure out all the “well, it depends,” if any exist, and why it depends, and whether you’d rather have them doing that than intercourse, or believe that they’ll get along just fine without intercourse and without some other form of sexual release involving a partner. ---
**Author:** ![taxi78cab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47c2d/32.png) [@taxi78cab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taxi78cab)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/26 "2004-11-29T19:44:06Z")
For the record I’m 25 and female. Although I have my doubts now, when I was in high school, I was convinced that it wasn’t sex. I had oral sex for the first time at 16 and still considered myself a virgin for a long time after that because I hadn’t had intercourse. I think \*\*Giraffe \*\*made a good point in saying that when someone says they had “sex” we assume they mean intercourse. That’s part of the reason I assumed that if I didn’t have intercourse, I hadn’t had “sex.” How the relationship and emotional aspects of it are handled depends largely on the two people involved. I don’t find oral sex as emotionally involving as intercourse and will still have oral sex more casually than I will have intercourse. But that’s just me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/27 "2004-11-29T20:05:30Z")
Definitely sex. Great, fun, nonpenetration type sex. M, 40 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/28 "2004-11-29T20:44:30Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > How is it not sex if it has sex right in the name? What about phone sex? ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/29 "2004-11-29T21:01:21Z")
I would say that considering oral sex to be less of an intimate/risky situation than intercourse is a bit disingenuous. I don’t think that many teens plan out their sex life very well and iirc, they certainly don’t stick to boundaries very well. By telling your teen that it’s okay to find yourself in an intimate situation, but “only let it go this far” is like telling your toddler that it’s okay to stick a fork in an electrical outlet, but only _this_ far. When you outline the risks involved in becoming intimate with a boyfriend/girlfriend, I would highlight the risk of things getting out of control. I would explain that sometimes our hormones can take us places that we aren’t prepared to be yet and that the easiest way to avoid doing something that is dangerous or regrettable is by avoiding placing yourself in situations where something like that may occur. It’s also important that your children are completely scared of sex, but rather recognize that firsts only happen once, and that the longer you are with someone and wait, the more special and comfortable that first time will be. Granted, they may rush off and hump like rabbits anyway, but I think that most children/teens/adults simply want to know _why_ they should and shouldn’t do something. A young teen is old enough to understand that they don’t want a sexually transmitted disease, an unwanted pregnancy, or heartbreak, but it’s not enough to explain why they shouldn’t have sex. You also want to be sure they know about all of the benefits to waiting until they’re older/more secure in their relationship. (Comfort, trust, etc.) A talk like that would’ve done me a world of good as a kid, lemme tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/30 "2004-11-29T22:03:19Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > A talk like that would’ve done me a world of good as a kid, lemme tell you. Heh. Spoken like someone who’s no longer a teenager. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/31 "2004-11-29T22:27:25Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > It’s also important that your children are completely scared of sex, but rather recognize that firsts only happen once, and that the longer you are with someone and wait, the more special and comfortable that first time will be. Is there a “not” missing there? 'Cause the last thing that needs to be ruling anyone’s sex life is fear. I mean, really. I had a friend in junior high who tried to kill herself after a boy kissed her because she thought she was no longer a virgin. (Thank god she failed.) Give 'em the facts, be supportive and love them to pieces when they mess up and fall apart, but they don’t need to be scared any more than they already are! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/32 "2004-11-29T22:45:53Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > What about phone sex? What’s your number? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/33 "2004-11-29T22:50:38Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > What about phone sex? Wipe down the receiver when finished, please. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/34 "2004-11-29T23:02:55Z")
Sex. However, a young woman I dated for a time certainly didn’t consider it the same, as she was saving herself for marriage, but had no problem with manual or oral stimulation. And neither did I 😃 M, 23. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/35 "2004-11-29T23:49:29Z")
It’s whatever you want to think it is, just keep sucking, OK. Of course it’s sex, unless you do it on your own, in which case it’s advanced yoga. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/36 "2004-11-30T00:25:17Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Is there a “not” missing there? 'Cause the last thing that needs to be ruling anyone’s sex life is fear. I mean, really. I had a friend in junior high who tried to kill herself after a boy kissed her because she thought she was no longer a virgin. (Thank god she failed.) Give 'em the facts, be supportive and love them to pieces when they mess up and fall apart, but they don’t need to be scared any more than they already are! Oh wow, what a horrible place to forget a word. Yes, a “not” certainly did belong there. :smack: Sorry about that. > [@Giraffe](#): > > Heh. Spoken like someone who’s no longer a teenager. You’re always so right, damn you. 😉 I’d like to \*believe \* it would’ve helped though. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/37 "2004-11-30T01:47:40Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > People took this legal hair-splitting and expanded it into this whole “oral sex isn’t sex” thing and it’s all just really bizarre. This notion certainly existed prior to the Clinton scandals. When I was in college ('89-'93), there were several girls we referred to as “wet’n’sticky virgins.” Wet’n’sticky virgins would do anything and everything with guy after guy, except for penis-in-vagina intercourse. And they would loudly crow about how they vehemently opposed to premarital sex. :rolleyes: Yes, I do think oral sex counts as “sex.” Female, 33. (We’ve had threads here debating whether it is more or less intimate than intercourse, which you might search for if you’re interested.) ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/38 "2004-11-30T02:32:34Z")
Doesn’t it have to do with the definition of “is”? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/39 "2004-11-30T02:52:57Z")
16, M, non-smoker Well, for me, as someone who is a virgin on all counts (my choice), it is most definitely sex for reasons of responsibility, intimacy, and sexual stimulation. A line must be drawn, however, in that sex, “actual sex”, is a whole lot worse on the scale of sexual endeavors for reasons of increased disease possibilities (AIDs, mostly) and chances of pregnancy - huge, huge, responsibilties that dwarf the responsibility required for oral sex. So, I’m a mixed bag. My friend, a 17 year old teenage non-smoker, who engages in oral sex rather casualy but with one partner so no real disease risk, considers it to be oral sex and NOT sex. Don’t ask me, she still claims to be a virgin. “Actual sex,” to her, is a Huge-Freaking-Deal. So we have “actual sex” virginity and a “sex” non-virginitiy. Mostly, from what I hear from other teenagers, it is No Big Deal. I personally consider it nothing major, just so the kids participating don’t act on hormones. No pregnancy, no big deal. Chance of disease, potentially life altering, huge deal - this is where you must be mature and responsible. Basically, just teach your offspring responsibility and paitence while allowing them to have you as a guide along the way. Millions upon millions of teenagers have acted on sexual impulses and millions and millions have made it to adulthood. If you are an open, honest, and well-reasoned parent all else will follow naturally. (Hopefully. Some cases are beyond comprehension, but we will assume that isn’t the case here) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144/40 "2004-11-30T03:08:08Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > . Heck, there are groups among which oral contact is considered something you progress to _beyond_ intercourse. . It definitely was the case in my peer group, and , as far as I can tell (It’s not like I’m often discussing sex with teens, so I might be mistaken), it’s still the case for teens around here. Oral sex is perceived as more privy, more kinky, more intimate, and as such would indeed be a progress over an ordinary intercourse. I strongly suspect that a teen who had oral sex but no intercourses would be quite rare in this part of the planet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/oral-sex-question-is-it-sex-or-a-form-of-abstinence/277144.md?page=3)