# Orange Is The New Black, Season 2, Episode 1 (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 8, 2014, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320 "2014-06-08T08:39:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/21 "2014-06-09T21:51:57Z")
I felt like Alex was getting her revenge on Piper. And I’d have a hard time blaming her for that. Then again, I can’t stand Piper - what a whiny baby!! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/22 "2014-06-09T22:26:53Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Also, saying “I don’t recall” isn’t enough for perjury conviction, I’d imagine. The only person who did know that Piper recalled the drug kingpin and refused to say it is Larry’s dad & perhaps Alex - but I don’t see Alex saying Piper and I talked about what we were going to say. I’m pretty sure “I don’t recall” is a cast iron way not to answer a question in a legal setting - they can’t prove you do (even if they prove that Piper knew him, they can’t prove that she remembers that she knew him right now), you’re not making a statement that can be demonstrated false and bite you in the ass later, and they can’t \*compel \*you to recall or be found in contempt either. It’s certainly [popular](http://www.smh.com.au/business/i-dont-recall-line-of-the-day-at-nsw-corruption-hearing-20121211-2b7ql.html). ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/23 "2014-06-09T22:39:08Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I also wonder if Piper’s lawyer didn’t have it in for her. Surely he must have known that testifying against a drug kingpin had its dangers, yet he calmly assures her that the drug kingpin is going away for a long time, and she has nothing to fear from testifying. Most lawyers have a respect for the law and a sense of professional ethics which would compel him or her to advise their client to tell the truth when on the witness stand. I don’t think it was any more than that. And, quite frankly, this is just another example of Piper fucking up. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/24 "2014-06-09T22:43:35Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > I felt like Alex was getting her revenge on Piper. And I’d have a hard time blaming her for that. Then again, I can’t stand Piper - what a whiny baby!! And that’s why she apologized afterward? No, she changed her mind because someone offered her a deal, and Piper just got screwed. It wasn’t malice, but it was certainly selfish. ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/25 "2014-06-09T23:06:21Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Most lawyers have a respect for the law and a sense of professional ethics which would compel him or her to advise their client to tell the truth when on the witness stand. I don’t think it was any more than that. And, quite frankly, this is just another example of Piper fucking up. Agreed. And I don’t think Alex was out to deliberately screw Piper over, she just was given an opportunity and took it. Piper fucked up by taking Alex’s advice instead of her lawyer’s. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/26 "2014-06-10T00:22:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > …Her problem with going to the bathroom was ALSO part of normal prison procedure. Prisoners are often denied water and food prior to trips so they don’t NEED to go to the bathroom, but if they HAVE to go there are no facilities on the bus and some of those bus trips can be long, and sometimes prisoners have wet themselves for that reason. At least we were spared that… Well accept for that woman who maid an ersatz diaper out of maxi-pads. And to be fair the guard who took her out of solitary did ask if she needed to pee several times. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I wonder if Alex got early release from her testimony, or rather got moved into protective custody or something… Well Alex was wearing civilian clothes instead of a prison uniform. She sure as hell didn’t look like she was being led back into a cell. IIRC there’s no parole in the federal system, but you can be released early for good behaviour after serving 85% of your sentence. Presumably the Justice Department can get even earlier if it suits their needs. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/27 "2014-06-10T00:30:31Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > And that’s why she apologized afterward? > > No, she changed her mind because someone offered her a deal, and Piper just got screwed. It wasn’t malice, but it was certainly selfish. I agree with this. But I think Piper finally got wise by the end of the show. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/28 "2014-06-10T04:08:00Z")
About the early release stuff… I’m pretty sure Alex had a much longer sentence than Piper. Piper was only going to be in for 15 months. I guess it would be nice to know how much time passed during season 1. I believe season 2 picks up a month after the end of season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/29 "2014-06-10T05:06:03Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Most lawyers have a respect for the law and a sense of professional ethics which would compel him or her to advise their client to tell the truth when on the witness stand. I don’t think it was any more than that. And, quite frankly, this is just another example of Piper fucking up. Well, yes, but do they have any ethics when it comes to protecting their clients’ lives? Doe professional ethics about getting the truth out in court trump concerns for the ability of their clients to continue breathing once they’ve testified? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/30 "2014-06-10T05:08:22Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Well accept for that woman who maid an ersatz diaper out of maxi-pads. And to be fair the guard who took her out of solitary did ask if she needed to pee several times. That’s in the show. I was talking about in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/31 "2014-06-10T13:02:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well, yes, but do they have any ethics when it comes to protecting their clients’ lives? Doe professional ethics about getting the truth out in court trump concerns for the ability of their clients to continue breathing once they’ve testified? If the lawyer thinks there’s a legitimate reason for their client to fear for their safety, they would try to strike a deal for additional protection, a transfer to another prison, witness protection or whatever rather than tell their client to commit perjury. Not saying all these options would have been available in Piper’s case but the goal would be “protect you” rather than “lie so we don’t have to protect you”. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/32 "2014-06-10T16:34:40Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > If the lawyer thinks there’s a legitimate reason for their client to fear for their safety, they would try to strike a deal for additional protection, a transfer to another prison, witness protection or whatever rather than tell their client to commit perjury. > > Not saying all these options would have been available in Piper’s case but the goal would be “protect you” rather than “lie so we don’t have to protect you”. But getting back to the dramatic end of the spectrum, Larry’s father has a conflict: he thinks Piper has been bad for his son. He’s not so motivated, shall we say, to protect her. And not going that extra mile to protect her might force her to disappear or get killed … he would not have had to do anything POSITIVE to get rid of her, just not go that extra mile. Lawyers are accustomed to working with laws and not morality, so he might not even understand it to be unethical. ---
**Author:** ![threeorange](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@threeorange](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threeorange)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/33 "2014-06-10T23:05:43Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > But getting back to the dramatic end of the spectrum, Larry’s father has a conflict: he thinks Piper has been bad for his son. He’s not so motivated, shall we say, to protect her. And not going that extra mile to protect her might force her to disappear or get killed … he would not have had to do anything POSITIVE to get rid of her, just not go that extra mile. Lawyers are accustomed to working with laws and not morality, so he might not even understand it to be unethical. Howard (Larry’s dad) never struck me as being that morally bereft. But even if he were, if got back to Larry that something Howard did allowed Piper to die, that wouldn’t be good for his relationship with his son. Also, giving advice that caused the death of one of his clients probably wouldn’t be good for his practice either. In short, I don’t think Howard believed Piper was in any real danger. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/34 "2014-06-10T23:19:07Z")
I thought it was pretty clear what happened but I could be wrong. The prosecution was expecting Piper’s testimony to be sufficient to put the kingpin away. When Piper refused to testify, the prosecution was put under pressure and made a plea deal with Alex that she could get her sentence commuted in exchange for testifying. Alex knew this was going to happen and deliberately engineered it to be the case. All of the stuff about the kingpin having people on the outside and threatening her was bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/35 "2014-06-10T23:22:52Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > All of the stuff about the kingpin having people on the outside and threatening her was bullshit. You must not have watched the whole season yet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/36 "2014-06-10T23:22:57Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I thought it was pretty clear what happened but I could be wrong. The prosecution was expecting Piper’s testimony to be sufficient to put the kingpin away. When Piper refused to testify, the prosecution was put under pressure and made a plea deal with Alex that she could get her sentence commuted in exchange for testifying. > > Alex knew this was going to happen and deliberately engineered it to be the case. All of the stuff about the kingpin having people on the outside and threatening her was bullshit. It’s an interesting theory, but none of that was obvious. I don’t think we even see any evidence that it’s true. I like it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/37 "2014-06-10T23:48:55Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > You must not have watched the whole season yet. 😉 Gee thanks for that…no, we haven’t, that’s why this is an episode 1 thread. If I could, I’d like to suggest that going forward nothing in episodes past the one being discussed is mentioned (or implied), even in spoiler boxes. There was no reason for that. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/38 "2014-06-10T23:59:28Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I thought it was pretty clear what happened but I could be wrong. The prosecution was expecting Piper’s testimony to be sufficient to put the kingpin away. When Piper refused to testify, the prosecution was put under pressure and made a plea deal with Alex that she could get her sentence commuted in exchange for testifying. I don’t think the prosecution would have the ability to make that offer on a dime. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/39 "2014-06-11T00:00:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Gee thanks for that…no, we haven’t, that’s why this is an episode 1 thread. > > If I could, I’d like to suggest that going forward nothing in episodes past the one being discussed is mentioned (or implied), even in spoiler boxes. > > There was no reason for that. Agreed. I clicked it because I wasn’t expecting future spoilers in the _Episode One_ thread (and half the time people use spoiler boxes for jokes and stuff). Lame. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320/40 "2014-06-11T00:04:13Z")
You weren’t expecting a spoiler box to contain a spoiler. Gotcha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-episode-1-open-spoilers/690320.md?page=3)