# Orange origin **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 11, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204 "2000-04-11T05:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/1 "2000-04-11T05:18:00Z")
Cecil’s column [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_344a.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_344a.html) Cecil did take the etymology most of the way back. But before it was Sanskrit, it originated from Tamil. The word _orange_ can be traced back through French _une orange_, Spanish _naranja_, Arabic _nâranj_, Persian _nârang_, and Sanskrit _nâranga_ to the Tamil root word _nâru-_ ‘to be fragrant, to sprout up’. However, the present-day Tamil word for orange is _ârañcu_. Borrowed back from English—it’s gone full circle! Orange you glad I told you that? * * * MODERATOR NOTE: Please be aware, this thread is from April 2000, until revived in Post #6 on Feb 7, 2014. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/2 "2000-04-11T13:51:00Z")
Not to be a party pooper, but on what basis do you assert that the Sanskrit word _naranga_ is derived from the Tamil word _naru-_, as opposed to the other likely possibility: that both words derive from the same proto-Sanskrit word? Doug (the root curious) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/3 "2000-04-11T14:56:00Z")
The matter doesn’t seem to be quite as clear-cut with respect to the Tamil origin of _naranga_ as **ishmintingas** asserts. Monier-Williams’s Sanskrit-English Dictionary mentions the synonym _naga-ranga_, “Naga [serpent]-color”, for _naranga_, but this looks to me like an artificial etymology. The entry under “orange” in _Hobson-Jobson_ (ed. Crooke-Yule-Burnell) contains the following comment: > [@](#): > > [Of _naranga_] no satisfactory etymological explanation has been given, and they have perhaps been Sanscritized from some southern term. Sir W. Jones, in his article on the Spikenard of the Ancients, quotes from Dr. Anderson of Madras, “a very curious philological remark, that in the Tamul dictionary, most words beginning with _nar_ have some relation to fragrance; as…_nartei_, citron; _narta manum_ (read _marum_), the wild orange-tree”…(See \*As. Res. vol. ii. 414). We have not been able to verify many of these Tamil terms. But it is true that in both Tamil and Malayalam _naru_ is ‘fragrant.’…The native country of the orange is believed to be somewhere on the northern border of India. A wild orange, the supposed parent of the cultivated species, both sweet and bitter, occurs in Garhwal and Sikkim… On the one hand, it seems odd that the original name of a plant native to the extreme north of India should be Dravidian (belonging to the language family that includes Tamil), since Dravidian languages are now concentrated mostly in Southern India; on the other hand, there is evidence that Dravidian languages were more widespread in northern India before (and during the early part of) the spread of Indo-Iranian peoples in that region. On the other hand, the actual attested (if it **is** attested) Tamil term for orange does not seem very close to _naranga_; on the other hand, if _naranga_ originated in an Indo-Iranian language from a proto-Indo-European root, we’d expect to see cognates of that root in other Indo-European languages and other derivatives of it in Sanskrit, which apparently we don’t. I’ve run out of hands and am still not convinced one way or the other; unless **ishmintingas** has some more current evidence supporting the _naru-_ derivation, I think we may have to say that the jury’s still out. ## Kimstu SDMB: where we can make an arcane discussion out of **anything**. ---
**Author:** ![mok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mok)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/4 "2000-04-11T15:08:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to be a party pooper, but on what basis do you assert that the Sanskrit word naranga is derived from the Tamil word naru-, as opposed to the other likely possibility: that both words derive from the same proto-Sanskrit word? Because Tamil and Sanskrit do not both derive from proto-Sanskrit. Sanskrit is Indo-European, and Tamil is Dravidian. -m ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/5 "2000-04-12T05:17:00Z")
But **m** , I think that **Doug** ’s point is that since we’re not seeing a standard root-\>derivative etymological relationship here, we’re guessing at some kind of linguistic borrowing from one language family by the other. Why should the transmission of some original word related to “orange” not have gone from Sanskrit to Tamil instead of from Tamil to Sanskrit? Contrary to what **ishmintingas** asserted, I don’t see any **conclusive** evidence that the Tamil _naru-_ predates the Sanskrit _naranga_, or even that the two forms are definitely related linguistically. Does anybody have some new data? ## Kimstu all right, I **will** get back to work now ---
**Author:** ![senthilas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@senthilas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senthilas)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/6 "2014-02-08T16:47:10Z")
‘Naarrangaai’ is the Tamil name for the wild citrus variant from old times from Sangam literature. ‘Naaru’ means fragrance,smell in Tamil. Any body can verify both these words from any standard Tamil dictionary. I hope its clear now. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/7 "2014-02-08T17:22:05Z")
Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, **senthilas** , we’re glad you found us. For everyone else: Please note this thread is from April 2000, until revived on Feb 7, 2014, by the prior post. It’s no big deal, not a problem, I just want people to be alerted and not try to have conversations with posters who may be lonnng gone. Or not remember what they wrote 14 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/8 "2014-02-08T17:47:31Z")
Off-topic, but I’m curious: did including poster names in all posts get instituted sometime between 1:18AM and 9:51AM on April 11, 2000, or is the lack of a name on the OP due to some other reason? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/9 "2014-02-09T12:58:55Z")
My fuzzy memory: there was a change of system back when, and somehow usernames got dropped. I’m not sure why there’s a diff between 12 AM and 9 AM, but I’ll ask someone with a better memory of these technical glitches to clear it up. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/10 "2014-02-09T13:43:00Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Off-topic, but I’m curious: did including poster names in all posts get instituted sometime between 1:18AM and 9:51AM on April 11, 2000, or is the lack of a name on the OP due to some other reason? > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > My fuzzy memory: there was a change of system back when, and somehow usernames got dropped. I’m not sure why there’s a diff between 12 AM and 9 AM, but I’ll ask someone with a better memory of these technical glitches to clear it up. That was just after the Board software changed from UBB to vBulletin. I can’t explain the thread in question as there are threads available before that date that were started by posters who have names attached. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/orange-origin/1204/11 "2014-02-09T15:51:07Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Off-topic, but I’m curious: did including poster names in all posts get instituted sometime between 1:18AM and 9:51AM on April 11, 2000, or is the lack of a name on the OP due to some other reason? We didn’t start out on the vBulletin board system; we had something else first. When we converted to vBulletin the oldest posts in the system carried over without the screen names. Couldn’t do anything about it hthen; can’t do anything about it now neither.