# Order any checks lately? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498 "2024-01-22T15:03:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/141 "2024-01-25T10:21:47Z")
I dont remember but I think I might have started a thread about it 15 or 20 years ago. Also, I kinda meant to put this in the other current and similar thread about “How would you pay somebody?” (Somethink like that). Yes I’m still very curious what was going on there because one woukd think a clearly better system would be a profit maker for whoever started it in the US. Eventually there was PayPal, Venmo, etc, plus Zelle but while Zelle is close, none of those are quite the same as Europe/Canada. But more importantly, why did we Americans go without any sane way to transfer money for 40 or more years? Whats the Straight Dope? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/142 "2024-01-25T11:10:43Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > I opted out of getting paper statements years ago. That’s one thing I haven’t done. I get a lot of emails, but my snail mail, including all the junk mail, has dwindled to between one and three a day. A bill is not going to slip past me if it’s coming in by snail mail. With my email, if I think for a moment, “I’ll deal with that later,” in another day it’s off the screen. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/143 "2024-01-25T12:39:44Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > why was the US decades behind everywhere else when it came to banking? IMO the biggest issue is simply the number of banks in the US. There are currently over 4000 banks, and that’s after decades of consolidation. Many of those banks are very small, with only one or a couple of branches. I’m sure everyone knows that the more people are involved in making a decision, the less likely any decision will be made at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/144 "2024-01-25T13:52:55Z")
I’m skeptical. There are around 5000 banks in Europe; and not only that, we didn’t just need agreement between banks in a single country to make the transfer mechanism work, we needed agreement between the banking systems of entirely different countries. It has to be something else. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/145 "2024-01-25T14:44:46Z")
I think it’s probably a couple of things - one that I seem to remember from a prior thread is that in Europe, I can go to Bank A to make a deposit into an account at Bank B. Generally speaking, I can’t do that in the US - maybe I can if the two banks are subsidiaries of the same parent company or sometimes if two small credit unions are part of a shared network but that’s about it. If my account is at Citibank , I can only make deposits at Citibank ATMs or branches. There are ATM networks, but plenty of ATMs don’t even accept deposits at all. But assuming that I am physically near a branch of the bank where someone has an account , I can make a deposit directly into their account if I have the account number . That’s the problem - for some reason that I can’t figure out, Americans don’t want to give people their checking account number. Even though it’s on every check they write and on the back of many of the checks they deposit. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/146 "2024-01-25T18:20:40Z")
There’s a feeling among Americans that giving your checking account number to someone is tantamount to giving that person all your money. Which is irrational: As you say, the number is printed on every check. But even I have to admit to this reluctance at a gut level. I’m not sure why that is. If the ease of transfers elsewhere in the world relies on casual passing account information around, that could be part of the difference. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/147 "2024-01-25T18:49:39Z")
It’s not irrational. Basically to take money out of a payment account you need a combination of both a public key (account number) and either a private key (password, 3 digit security code on back of credit card) and/or a physical device (card, recognized phone, recognized computer). Checks are different: they have a public key on the check (consisting of routing number and account number) with no private key or physical device. So if you were to find out someone’s routing and account number you could go to your friendly check printer and have a bunch of checks printed out with which you buy stuff with. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/148 "2024-01-25T19:04:48Z")
… So checks themselves are the problem, and since we don’t use them in Europe, knowledge of the account confers no value. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/149 "2024-01-25T19:05:28Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So if you were to find out someone’s routing and account number you could go to your friendly check printer and have a bunch of checks printed out with which you buy stuff with. I’m sure it could be done - but the irrational part is where people will pay via check (which has the routing number and account holder on it ) and accept checks in payment ( which often have the recipient’s bank account info on the back) but have a problem with just exchanging the info without an actual paper check. After all, if you give me a check (for whatever reason) I could in theory use the routing and account numbers to pay one of my bills and I don’t even need to have checks printed with your account number. I did that all the time to pay my kids" college tuition- bill was in their name and I paid by electronic check using my account info. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/150 "2024-01-25T23:49:04Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > That’s one thing I haven’t done. I get a lot of emails, but my snail mail, including all the junk mail, has dwindled to between one and three a day. A bill is not going to slip past me if it’s coming in by snail mail. With my email, if I think for a moment, “I’ll deal with that later,” in another day it’s off the screen. Part of my routine is to regularly monitor all of my accounts (bank, credit card, etc.) using their websites and download copies of my monthly statements. The email reminders I get from all of them about available statements or payment due dates are my belt-and-suspenders system. Of course, it also helps that I’m retired ans thus have time to do things. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/151 "2024-01-26T01:06:25Z")
The bills come via USPS, I pay them off twice a month through the credit union’s bill pay setup, and that’s when I check in on my credit card activity (on that same site) and my bank balances. One website, twice a month, maybe 8-10 minutes each time. Done. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/152 "2024-01-26T01:11:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > With my email, if I think for a moment, “I’ll deal with that later,” in another day it’s off the screen. I either pay a bill as soon as I get the email, or if I don’t I mark the message unread until I do. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/153 "2024-01-26T02:36:27Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I either pay a bill as soon as I get the email, or if I don’t I mark the message unread until I do. My system involves very little time, and doesn’t involve staying on top of my fast-moving email in-box. I don’t have to pay my bills the moment I get them, twice a month is plenty. I have a small pile of maybe three or four unpaid bills on one shelf of my desk rather than an in-box with dozens of recent unread emails for them to get lost in. All the important mail comes in the small trickle of snail mail, where it’s impossible to miss. Moving the bills to the torrent of email would be taking what’s simple and easy and making it difficult and complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/154 "2024-01-26T02:41:19Z")
To each his own. I prefer not to receive any printed mail and not to keep any printed documents to whatever extent possible. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/155 "2024-01-26T02:51:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t have to pay my bills the moment I get them, twice a month is plenty. Some of us find that if we either don’t have bills on bank autopay or pay them immediately when they arrive in the mail that there is a possibility they will get lost. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/156 "2024-01-26T03:13:11Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > If you want to start this as a new FQ, I would be happy to add my own experience as an American transplant, because I’m very interested as well. I would think best in IMHO because I don’t think there is a straight factual answer. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/157 "2024-01-26T16:48:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > To each his own. I prefer not to receive any printed mail and not to keep any printed documents to whatever extent possible. Same. My primary gmail account is relatively clutter free. Emails that show up are typically relevant and it is a half dozen or so a day. My secondary that I use a bit more willy-nilly is a mess. With this approach, we have multiple days per week we receive no physical mail. Well, we also did some work to get off catalog mailing lists to help reduce it. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/158 "2024-01-26T23:57:23Z")
Last year I finished a checkbook, 24 checks in three years - about ¼ were for dental co-pays for work that is now done, handed to them in the office, another ⅓ were for services, again, handed to whomever I was paying; no credit card fees for them, even a discount for me a couple of times. The only checks I mailed were for: - a race series that I do that doesn’t have any online payment option. I even emailed them & said, I’m coming (again this year), here’s my demographic info, I’ll bring payment on race day. Nope, they required I mail in a check with my race app. If they didn’t sell out I would have just waited to do same day registration - DMV - while regular things can be done online some special things (customized plates, etc) can only be paid with a check/MO included in the envelope with the mailed in paper form - 1x form/check - IRS &/or local taxes because…fuck 'em! I always mail them on the 15th; they don’t get it in their hands for a couple of days & don’t cash it for weeks. I’ve even been lucky enough to be in other countries on April 15th _twice_ so they don’t get the check for a couple of extra days. > [@PastTense](#): > > For the IRS you can use the free Electronic Federal Tax Payment System tax payment service, which uses ACH: > > [Welcome to EFTPS online](https://www.eftps.com/eftps/) & they make you jump thru hoops to setup a verification account before you can _send_ them money. Uh-uh, sorry, nope, I won’t download an app or setup anything for a one-time (a year) payment for _your_ convenience. If I wanted them to get ~~their~~ my money faster I’d do a bill-pay ACH from my bank acct. (Why are there about 4,000 parking meter apps, & every town uses a different one?) [Id.me](http://Id.me) scares the crap outta me (& I could get some discounts if I wanted to use them); a private company that I’m giving more info to than what the DMV or the IRS has on me? How good is their security? What if they get hacked? I know there are some states that mandate their use (ie if you need unemployment); glad I’m not in one of them. > [@Cervaise](#): > > I’m receiving some money from my recently departed grandfather’s estate, to be issued as monthly payments from the insurance company where he had an annuity set up. It’s a US firm, and they want to mail us a check. We said, can you do direct deposit instead? They said yes. We said great, here’s our bank account info here in Europe. IAT is the subtype of ACH that they _could_ have used; it stands for International ACH Txn. Yes, one needs some more info than for a domestic ACH but a lot of that is because of AML (anti-money laundering) requirements > [@Cervaise](#): > > And they said, no, it has to be a bank in the US, and to set up direct deposit, a voided check has to be physically mailed to us. We said, seriously? They said, yes, seriously. > > We had to dig into our boxed records to find an old check pad, which thankfully we haven’t discarded. > > Positively neanderthal by Euro banking standards. All that requirement does is prevent you from making a typo when entering your acct #. Of course, you’re probably mailing a voided check to them for them to manually key in the information, which means that _they_ can typo your acct #. Both of the above things are about them as a company & not US banking in general. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/159 "2024-01-27T05:03:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There’s a feeling among Americans that giving your checking account number to someone is tantamount to giving that person all your money. Which is irrational: As you say, the number is printed on every check. But even I have to admit to this reluctance at a gut level. I’m not sure why that is. But the US banking system could have made the European-type transfer system available for those of us unafraid to use it (which would be more and more people each year as folks realized we early-adopters weren’t losing every penny in our accounts) and _also_ offer traditional American check-writing accounts for the scaredy-cats. I still think that the first few banks to offer the sensible European system would have soon gained a lot of new accounts as consumers switched over to the easy and logical system. Maybe every bank would have needed to have the same basic transfer platform/protocol? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498/160 "2024-01-27T11:29:43Z")
They’re making some progress - five years ago , to move money from my credit union account to my checking account at another bank, I had to withdraw money from the credit union and deposit it in the bank. Now, I can transfer it electronically- but that might be only because my name is on both accounts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-any-checks-lately/996498.md?page=9)