# Order of Color Word Appearance **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 18, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168 "2003-10-18T06:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Feroz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@Feroz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feroz)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/1 "2003-10-18T06:45:52Z")
In one of Cecil’s columns ( [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2\_168b.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_168b.html) ) there is a discussion about the order of color words appearing in a language. The classical Greeks are said to have only had words for four colors: black, white, red, and yellow. I don’t read Greek, but I have read translations of the Homeric sagas, and I clearly remember that the goddess Athene was often described as gray-eyed. But as gray isn’t supposed to come up until the seventh color, at the earliest, this seems to be a counter-example to the theory. Does anyone who can actually read the Greek care to enlighten me as to whether that is an accurante translation from The Iliad and/or The Odessey? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/3 "2021-12-13T07:50:11Z")
Well, no one’s come up with an answer in 18 years, so I think speculation is in order. The color words Cecil was talking about are general words. That is, they can be applied to just about any object. My speculation is that the grey-word used in the Iliad was specific for eye color and not anything else. Much like the color word _hazel_ in English, which is used almost exclusively for eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/4 "2021-12-13T08:32:27Z")
Good theory. But note that if true it would still imply that the reality of color word progression may be a bit more complex than the way it’s popularly conceived. It would be an example of naming another color, even if only in one context. And it might make us wonder whether some of the times they used the “wrong” color descriptor for something they actually were using the word in some contextual way. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/5 "2021-12-13T08:34:09Z")
Also, I can’t believe this zombie is old enough to vote… ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/6 "2021-12-13T10:22:18Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > But note that if true it would still imply that the reality of color word progression may be a bit more complex than the way it’s popularly conceived. I expect some general color words started out as specialized colors. That may have been the case for pink and orange, and perhaps for others if you go back far enough. Not that this would necessarily apply to Athena’s grey eyes, but note that Homer also mentioned the wine-dark sea since he didn’t have a word for blue. > **[Wine-dark sea (Homer)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine-dark_sea_(Homer))** > > Wine-dark sea is a traditional English translation of oînops póntos (οἶνοψ πόντος, IPA: /ôi̯.nops pón.tos/), from oînos (οἶνος, "wine") + óps (ὄψ, "eye; face"), a Homeric epithet. A literal translation is "wine-face sea" (wine-faced, wine-eyed). It is attested five times in the Iliad and twelve times in the Odyssey often to describe rough, stormy seas. The only other use of oînops in the works of Homer is for oxen, for which is it used once in the Iliad and once in the Odyssey, where it descri On... > [@Mijin](#): > > Also, I can’t believe this zombie is old enough to vote… It was near the top of the FQ list but without any recent post, so no doubt some spam got cornfielded. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/7 "2021-12-13T14:13:32Z")
There is, of course, an order for adjectives in English: with few exceptions, multiple adjectives are ranked accordingly: opinion, size, age, shape, colour, origin, material, purpose. Well known exceptions are: _Big Bad Wolf_ and _To Boldly Go_. Both follow the rule of [ablaut reduplication](http://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/a-hotchpotch-of-reduplication). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-color-word-appearance/208168/8 "2021-12-13T14:39:06Z")
FYI, nine years ago, the public radio program Radiolab ran a [story](https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/211213-sky-isnt-blue) (the link is to the transcript) about this subject, including the involvement of the nineteenth century British politician William Gladstone.