# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/181 "2009-10-07T13:03:29Z")
It’s still better than Ghostwalk. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/182 "2009-10-09T14:28:19Z")
[New comic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0684.html). ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/183 "2009-10-09T15:41:44Z")
Go, V. And Elan, as well. Nice pile of corpses, there! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/184 "2009-10-09T16:48:28Z")
Fly, blackbird, fly… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/185 "2009-10-09T23:00:37Z")
An obscure issue, perhaps, but why doesn’t Elan have a surname? We’ve seen he has a family. Roy, Haley, Durkon, and Belkar all have surnames as do several of the minor characters. Vaarsuvius doesn’t, but presumedly elves don’t go in for them. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/186 "2009-10-09T23:41:17Z")
For drama, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/187 "2009-10-10T02:33:07Z")
I was wondering if it was an obscure D&D reference that I wasn’t getting. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/188 "2009-10-11T04:18:30Z")
[Another new one already!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0685.html) He deserved to die. No one messes with Mr. Scruffy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/189 "2009-10-11T04:49:23Z")
To clarify on Incarnum, the biggest problem with it was that it was too front-ended. A first-level Incarnate is hideously overpowered, probably on a par with a 2nd- or 3rd-level character of most classes. An 18th-level Incarnate, meanwhile, is probably on a par with a 5th- or 6th-level spellcaster. And even aside from the power level in general, Incarnum really doesn’t have anything that would be useful in an interrogation at all-- The best you could do would be a +8 or so to Sense Motive. As for Elan’s (and Nale’s, of course) surname, the general consensus is that they’re related to someone dramatically-significant, and that relationship obviously can’t be revealed until the moment of maximum drama. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/190 "2009-10-11T06:39:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As for Elan’s (and Nale’s, of course) surname, the general consensus is that they’re related to someone dramatically-significant, and that relationship obviously can’t be revealed until the moment of maximum drama. They are the [sons of a barmaid and an un-named “ruthless warlord”.](http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Elan#Early_years) The fact that no name at all is attached to that warlord does seem to lend itself to your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/191 "2009-10-11T17:04:34Z")
The latest strip makes it clear that Belkar really is just acting. I like that he’s drawn pink and sunburned, per Durkons witheld protection spell. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/192 "2009-10-11T17:15:03Z")
I just regret that V didn’t use chain lightning on Belkar’s group: I would love to have seen some electric Buggy Lou. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/193 "2009-10-11T17:21:10Z")
You…are going on the list. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/194 "2009-10-11T20:32:30Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > The latest strip makes it clear that Belkar really is just acting. Was that ever in question? I thought it was specifically spelled out that he had to pretend that he was developing character just so he could continue “playing” with the good guys. ETA: **Left Hand of Dorkness** , that was awesome. Elan couldn’t have done better. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/195 "2009-10-11T21:15:18Z")
Belkar may just be pretending to not be a psychopath, but he clearly actually cares about Mr. Scruffy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/196 "2009-10-11T21:23:12Z")
That pun was so perfect, that I’d almost suspect Rich Burlew of setting it up deliberately, except that he’s never going to get the chance to deliver the punchline. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/197 "2009-10-11T21:35:59Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > Belkar may just be pretending to not be a psychopath, but he clearly actually cares about Mr. Scruffy. When I read the new strip with my daughter (it’s become a ritual now; in fact, when I found out the Beatles-pun strip was up, I shouted “Hey! There’s a new Order of the Stick!” and she came in to my room and said “Oh yeah, I know, I saw it last night,” and I said “The one called ‘V Was Only Waiting For This Moment To Arise’?” and she said “Oh, I don’t know, I didn’t read it yet, I was waiting for you to get home so we could read it together.”) we both thought that was pretty sweet. And the strip title is “On Friendship,” which (as we figured it) shows that Belkar considers Mr. Scruffy to be a much better friend than his old slaver pal or his drinking buddy Buggy Lou. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/198 "2009-10-11T21:37:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That pun was so perfect, that I’d almost suspect Rich Burlew of setting it up deliberately, except that he’s never going to get the chance to deliver the punchline. That occurred to me too after I read **Left Hand of Dornkess** ’s post. Perhaps Rich was going to use it when he came up with Buggy Lou’s name but then changed the strip? I guess it’s probably more likely just a hilarious coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/199 "2009-10-11T21:43:31Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Was that ever in question? I thought it was specifically spelled out that he had to pretend that he was developing character just so he could continue “playing” with the good guys. That’s obviously what mind-Shojo \*wanted \*him to think. I have my suspicions - namely,that the manipulative old bastard tricked him into developing actual character. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/200 "2009-10-11T21:47:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s obviously what mind-Shojo \*wanted \*him to think. I have my suspicions - namely,that the manipulative old bastard tricked him into developing actual character. That’s a good point. I suspect that a normal person forced to act like a good guy all the time might actually develop some good guy attributes. Of course, this is Belkar, so who knows… but it would be nice if he did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=11)