# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 116
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2301 "2011-07-16T18:07:10Z")
Is Thog in some sort of barbarian-class berserker state? How does that work? Thanks, I don’t know beans about RPG rules. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2302 "2011-07-16T18:32:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And the Order really needs to stop letting the Guild dictate the terms of engagements-- The Guild all seem to be optimizing to fight their opposite numbers, which gives them an edge. But if Roy and Vaarsuvius, for instance, were to trade opponents, they’d probably both have the advantage. You have to remember that the Guild spends its time planning how to defeat the order, while the Order spends its time planning how to save the world. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2303 "2011-07-16T18:51:05Z")
I like the bit with Roy’s sword: ‘THOG fan 4 life.’ Whoops! ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2304 "2011-07-16T18:54:21Z")
Paraphrasing a poster at the OOTS forums, “Who knew that barb rage also gave you Monk levels?” I gotta’ say, while I don’t think Roy is dead—although, that’s a good way to get the Order indebted to Malack or Tarquin—I’d think he would be after getting pulped by that boulder. And, since this Gate is guarded by illusions, when are illusions going to make a significant appearance? Do we even have the slightest idea where Girard’s Gate is? I’m sure I’ve read, but have forgotten already, but do we even know that the Gate is somewhere in the Empire of Blood? And if so, how? Amazing how much emotion and subtlety Burlew is able to convey with such deliberately primitive art. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2305 "2011-07-16T18:57:16Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I like the bit with Roy’s sword: ‘THOG fan 4 life.’ Whoops! I wonder if Burlew is annoyed, like he seems to have been with “Belkar-is-not-evil, just-misunderstood” fanboys, with people who can’t get it through their heads that Thog is not a nice guy, and isn’t meant to be a sympathetic character. Even with liking puppies. I read the panel as a deliberate “Take that” to such fans. (TVTropes deliberately not linked to.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2306 "2011-07-16T19:39:16Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Paraphrasing a poster at the OOTS forums, “Who knew that barb rage also gave you Monk levels?” I gotta’ say, while I don’t think Roy is dead—although, that’s a good way to get the Order indebted to Malack or Tarquin—I’d think he would be after getting pulped by that boulder. Getting [impaled by a bastard sword](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html) is usually pretty fatal, too, but Haley pulled through. Roy’s down for the count, most likely, but I don’t think he’s departed for the distant shore just yet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2307 "2011-07-16T19:42:36Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Is Thog in some sort of barbarian-class berserker state? How does that work? Thanks, I don’t know beans about RPG rules. Barbarians have a rage ability, that grants them a temporary bonus to their strength (which gives them bonuses to hit and to damage) and to their constitution (which increases their hit points, allowing them to take more damage before dying). The rage lasts for a number of rounds based off their constitution, after which they’re left weakened and exhausted. In this comic, Burlew is overstating the advantages of raging for dramatic purposes. It generally wouldn’t allow a barbarian to suddenly dominate a superior opponent so thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2308 "2011-07-16T19:52:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Barbarians have a rage ability, that grants them a temporary bonus to their strength (which gives them bonuses to hit and to damage) and to their constitution (which increases their hit points, allowing them to take more damage before dying). The rage lasts for a number of rounds based off their constitution, after which they’re left weakened and exhausted. > > In this comic, Burlew is overstating the advantages of raging for dramatic purposes. It generally wouldn’t allow a barbarian to suddenly dominate a superior opponent so thoroughly. Thanks for the explanation! So all we need to save Roy (assuming he’s still alive) is to distract Thog for a few rounds until his rage-fest wears off? Anybody got a puppy? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2309 "2011-07-16T20:04:09Z")
Another point about rage is that, unlike some other ways of gaining extra hit points, the damage still counts when the extra hit points wear off. That is to say, if you do enough damage to kill a non-raging barbarian, but he’s raging, he’ll still die eventually when his rage wears off, if he hasn’t been healed before then. Death is just delayed, not prevented. So, in game terms, we could get a situation where Thog kills Roy and is still going strong, but then calms down and he collapses from his wounds, too. In game terms, at least-- I don’t think that’s going to happen here, both because I don’t think it would really fit the story, and because it doesn’t look like Roy has managed to do significant damage to Thog. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2310 "2011-07-16T22:52:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In this comic, Burlew is overstating the advantages of raging for dramatic purposes. It generally wouldn’t allow a barbarian to suddenly dominate a superior opponent so thoroughly. As was mentioned on the OOTS forums, it’s questionable if Roy is a superior opponent. He’s been dead for quite a while, while Thog has been gaining experience. And Roy doesn’t have his sword anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2311 "2011-07-16T23:07:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As was mentioned on the OOTS forums, it’s questionable if Roy is a superior opponent. He’s been dead for quite a while, while Thog has been gaining experience. And Roy doesn’t have his sword anymore. On the other hand, he was kicking Thog’s ass seven ways to Sunday before Thog hulked out on him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2312 "2011-07-17T00:32:41Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I wonder if Burlew is annoyed, like he seems to have been with “Belkar-is-not-evil, just-misunderstood” fanboys, with people who can’t get it through their heads that Thog is not a nice guy, and isn’t meant to be a sympathetic character. Even with liking puppies. > > I read the panel as a deliberate “Take that” to such fans. (TVTropes deliberately not linked to.) I think it was more likely a joke. That guy probably didn’t realize when he put on that shirt he literally was going to be a Thog fan for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2313 "2011-07-17T08:54:09Z")
Is it just me, or does it look like Thog is returning to his usual colour in the last panel? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2314 "2011-07-17T09:34:43Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Is it just me, or does it look like Thog is returning to his usual colour in the last panel? Look closely at some of the other panels; that’s just what it looks like when the dust obscures part of his skin. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2315 "2011-07-17T11:20:56Z")
Isn’t this a call-back to Roy’s “You broke my sword!”? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2316 "2011-07-18T06:36:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > As was mentioned on the OOTS forums, it’s questionable if Roy is a superior opponent. He’s been dead for quite a while, while Thog has been gaining experience. And Roy doesn’t have his sword anymore. Isn’t there also a Barbarian prestige class that turns the relatively meh regular rage into something altogether nastier ? ISTR something like that from NWN2. Raging Berserker, something like that ? Huge whopping STR buff when frenzied, can keep fighting even when your hitpoints are below 0, turns power attack to 11 ? Typically the kind of thing Thog would take. Besides, don’t Barbs get damage resistance at high levels ? 'cause without his sword, Roy is only doing 1d3+STR nonlethal with his piddly punches. So does Thog I suppose, but then Thog has a much higher +STR (natural +2, at least +6 from raging - and that’s assuming both started out with the same 18 base, which is questionable since Roy didn’t use Int as a dump stat). And a large STR difference also translates to better grappling ! ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2317 "2011-07-18T07:33:35Z")
Frenzied Berzerker. I don’t think Thog’s one of those, if only because one of the defining features of the class is that your frenzy makes you prone to attacking your allies if you run out of enemies (prompting the invention of a variety of ways to neutralise your own barbarian), which is exactly the sort of thing that would have had a joke or two in the comic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2318 "2011-07-18T07:35:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Isn’t there also a Barbarian prestige class that turns the relatively meh regular rage into something altogether nastier ? ISTR something like that from NWN2. Raging Berserker, something like that ? “Frenzied Berserker” I think? At least that’s what people on other forums have mentioned as a possibility. EDIT: Ninjaed! Also, someone on the OOTS forums mentioned a feat called Reckless Rage as well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2319 "2011-07-18T15:53:07Z")
As several people have noted, this is clearly a callback to [114](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0114.html). Roy is not a barbarian so presumably whatever Thog is doing is not a barbarian-exclusive feat. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2320 "2011-07-18T16:34:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Frenzied Berzerker. I don’t think Thog’s one of those, if only because one of the defining features of the class is that your frenzy makes you prone to attacking your allies if you run out of enemies (prompting the invention of a variety of ways to neutralise your own barbarian), which is exactly the sort of thing that would have had a joke or two in the comic. It’s been a long time since we’ve seen Thog in the presence of his allies-- He could have picked it up since then. And what Roy did, anyone pissed-off could do. That didn’t have any in-game effects, or at most something like a +1 morale bonus. Thog, though, is enjoying significant bonuses from his rage. It’s not a barbarian-exclusive feat or something he had to choose to take: It’s something all barbarians get automatically, and pretty much the defining ability of the class. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=115) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=117)