# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2341 "2011-07-22T18:32:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So he’s kicking people in the shins while laughing as they ineffectually swing for the illusory chin of his 6’-tall image? Precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2342 "2011-07-22T18:53:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, yes. The best roleplaying I’ve ever done was with a character whose history and personality were developed around a rather ridiculous build. I have VERY fond memories of playing an elf cleric with a Wisdom of 16…and an Intelligence of 6. She had pretty good physical stats, and better than good Dex. She just generally couldn’t understand some things. Now, her moral compass was usually spot on, which meant that she knew what the right thing to do was…she just couldn’t explain it very well, if at all. Think of Elan as a cleric instead of a bard. She was a dandy preacher (Charisma of either 14 or 15 to start, I believe) and she managed to convince several evil characters of the Error Of Their Ways (much to the distress of the GM, who had figured on them becoming recurring villains, but they kept failing their checks against her charisma). There’s nothing quite like upsetting a GM’s plans. This was the campaign that I dragged my daughter into, and in which she learned that she loves D&D. She saw a new side of me, a side that she’d never suspected me of having. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2343 "2011-07-22T18:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > So he’s kicking people in the shins while laughing as they ineffectually swing for the illusory chin of his 6’-tall image? You need to post about that in the Stupid D&D Tricks thread over in the Game Room. And in my experience, it’s physically impossible for the players to _not_ upset the DM’s plans. Whether they’re trying to or not, they’ll still manage it. The one time I DMed, I had about 5 times the length of the adventure prepared, in contingency plans, and still ended up going through all of them, and then some. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2344 "2011-07-23T01:42:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And in my experience, it’s physically impossible for the players to _not_ upset the DM’s plans. Whether they’re trying to or not, they’ll still manage it. The one time I DMed, I had about 5 times the length of the adventure prepared, in contingency plans, and still ended up going through all of them, and then some. To be fair, they also tend to upset their own plans. I had a group of level 1 characters that were trapped in a dead end valley, with a huge group of goblins led by a half-orc coming to the same location. The PCs screwed up my plans because I had left plenty of room in the timeline for them to get out, but they just kept searching the place, even after finding the macguffin. They realized the goblins were coming, and came up with a couple of different plans to deal with them, which had a pretty good chance of working well enough for at least some of them to survive. (They had no chance in straight up combat. 6 1st level party members versus 40 goblins, not good.) After all that brainstorming and work, they were at the gate as the goblins came up, and one of the PCs picked up a skull that was laying there. He borrowed a brightly glowing rock they had found earlier and put it in the skull, put holes in the back of the eye sockets, then stuck a staff in the hole on the bottom. In the darkness, it looked like it was floating, with beams of light coming out of the eyes. IOW, a classic [demilich](http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm). They then proceeded to _scare_ the goblins away. The half-orc got enraged and attacked on his own, but 6 to 1 against was a bit more than he could handle. The role playing of the scene was awesome, with quick wits and skill, aided by some luck (the real thing, not DM help) getting them out of a very bad situation. It was the kind of thing you love to be a part of, even as you wonder how the heck they came up with that. They all hit 2nd level at the end of the session, and we never played that campaign again. The player that came up with the skull idea and made it really work, then defeated the half-orc in combat, died of an aortic aneurism 2 weeks later, less than 6 hours before our next session. We still miss him. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2345 "2011-07-23T02:56:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You need to post about that in the Stupid D&D Tricks thread over in the Game Room. > > And in my experience, it’s physically impossible for the players to _not_ upset the DM’s plans. Whether they’re trying to or not, they’ll still manage it. The one time I DMed, I had about 5 times the length of the adventure prepared, in contingency plans, and still ended up going through all of them, and then some. [Could have been worse](http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs4_picMain_en.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2346 "2011-07-23T06:59:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Could have been worse](http://www.wizards.com/global/images/rpga_hq_polyffs4_picMain_en.gif) [Oh, yeah.](http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0098.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2347 "2011-07-25T07:44:04Z")
[798.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0798.html) On the one hand, it never pays to underestimate Roy. He’s the man with the plan. On the other hand, he seems to have forgotten that barbarians have a Move bonus. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2348 "2011-07-25T18:10:29Z")
Does having an arrow stabbed through your knee give a Move penalty? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2349 "2011-07-25T18:19:03Z")
I like that Belkar is finally going to get some strip-time, hopefully trying (and not failing ☹ ) to protect Mr Scruffy, and generally kicking some ass on adversaries. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2350 "2011-07-25T18:46:21Z")
So if you smash someone in the face with a flask with a few drops of healing potion remaining, do they get better or worse? In this case, apparently worse. I’m impressed that Roy was still able to move after being hit with a chunk of wall. I assume “wall” counts as some kind of improvised bludgeoning instrument? How much damage would it do? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2351 "2011-07-25T19:05:35Z")
> [@AndrewL](#): > > Does having an arrow stabbed through your knee give a Move penalty? Not generally, no. Not without a feat or a special class ability. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2352 "2011-07-25T20:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m impressed that Roy was still able to move after being hit with a chunk of wall. I assume “wall” counts as some kind of improvised bludgeoning instrument? How much damage would it do? The usual rule of thumb for improvised bludgeoning instruments is to treat them as a club. Since Thog is wielding the rubble two-handed, it’s probably best to call it a greatclub, which is 1d10 (plus Thog’s considerable Strength bonus, probably around an additional +13). He’s also getting a -4 penalty to his attack rolls for it being improvised, and probably only one attack every other round, since he needs to spend an action to rip out each chunk of concrete. He could crank the damage up even higher with Power Attack, but that’d probably be a bad idea, since Roy is probably using Combat Expertise and fighting defensively to drag the fight out, and too much penalty to attack would run a real risk of missing. And if Roy can last long enough (at most 10 rounds), then Thog’s rage will wear off, and he’ll be fatigued and unable to rage again for the duration of the encounter, which will swing the advantage back to Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2353 "2011-07-25T20:18:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The usual rule of thumb for improvised bludgeoning instruments is to treat them as a club. Since Thog is wielding the rubble two-handed, it’s probably best to call it a greatclub, which is 1d10 (plus Thog’s considerable Strength bonus, probably around an additional +13). Considering the size of the rubble, I’d count it as over-sized, which I believe would be 2d6. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2354 "2011-07-25T20:47:42Z")
> [@](#): > > He could crank the damage up even higher with Power Attack, but that’d probably be a bad idea, since Roy is probably using Combat Expertise and fighting defensively to drag the fight out, and too much penalty to attack would run a real risk of missing. I don’t believe that Thog is capable of such reasoning. I’m also not sure that Thog has even an inkling that Roy is trying to drag the fight out, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2355 "2011-07-25T23:28:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Considering the size of the rubble, I’d count it as over-sized, which I believe would be 2d6. I was taking the size of the rubble as artistic license (the Giant has certainly played fast-and-loose with size before), but you may be right. Still, that’d impose additional attack penalties, and the damage dice are really insignificant compared to the Str bonus. And Thog probably uses his Power Attack instinctively. Certainly he doesn’t always use it (a few strips ago he commented that he needed it to get through the Earth Guardian’s DR), and the actual calculation for optimum Power Attack is something even smart folks need to stop and think about. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2356 "2011-07-28T14:39:09Z")
Did Roy take the Diehard feat? I can’t imagine a normal human living through all that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2357 "2011-07-28T17:14:05Z")
He’s not a normal human. He’s a high-level fighter. Diehard would be almost irrelevant, compared to his positive hit points. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2358 "2011-07-28T17:40:07Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Did Roy take the Diehard feat? I can’t imagine a normal human living through all that. I tried to find the appropriate TVtropes entry for this, but basically, getting punched through walls? Thrown across rooms? Bashed with walls? All in the day’s work for your normal hero. Remember, this is a world where getting whacked with a longsword is no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2359 "2011-07-28T18:47:48Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I tried to find the appropriate TVtropes entry for this, but basically, getting punched through walls? Thrown across rooms? Bashed with walls? All in the day’s work for your normal hero. [Made of Iron?](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadeOfIron) > [@](#): > > Simply put, damage is done to characters that really, really should hurt them but is easily shaken off. Nobody ever breaks a rib or other bones unless that specific broken bone becomes important later on. Note, this isn’t Nigh Invulnerability, where the character actually is supernaturally protected from harm. This is the ability to shrug off blows that would disintegrate a human body when you technically shouldn’t be able to. Edit: In fact, O-Chul is listed on this page under webcomics. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2360 "2011-07-29T06:33:52Z")
While we’re waiting for an update, would anyone care to explain the RPG in-joke in [this old strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html). It’s an involved conversation when Miko was dragging the party toward Azure City, relating to how funny it is that Belkar doesn’t take Survival as a skill. Why is this funny, please? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=119)