# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2361 "2011-07-29T07:04:30Z")
One of the Ranger class’s better known abilities is that they get the Track feat for free. The Track feat lets you make checks against your Survival skill (which is based on Wisdom) to track a quarry. Survival is a class skill for rangers, and they get a ton of skill points, so one can generally take it for granted that any given ranger has maxed out Survival, for use for tracking (hence Roy hiring Belkar as the party’s tracker). Belkar, however, doesn’t care about anything except killing, and so never bothered to put any points at all in it. Miko, by contrast, had to actually spend a feat on Track, a feat which could have been used for many other things (like, improving her combat ability in a variety of ways). And since Survival is a cross-class skill for all of her classes, she had to spend two points for each rank and has a lower maximum skill rank. Plus, her classes give fewer skill points per level than Belkar’s. So it really wouldn’t make sense for her to have very many ranks in Survival, and in fact, she herself says that she only has 1: So she _can_ track, but she’s really not very good at it. But compared to Belkar, her single skill rank gives her an edge over his none. Now, it would still be possible for Belkar to have an equal or greater total skill modifier, if his Wisdom bonus were greater than hers. But Miko’s Wisdom is at least a little above average, and Belkar’s is below average. So he’s _still_ worse than her. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2362 "2011-07-29T16:03:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But Miko’s Wisdom is at least a little above average I was with you all the way up to here. I never saw any evidence that Miko’s Wisdom was above average. If anything she was probably one of the few people Belkar had a reasonable chance at beating on a Wisdom check. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2363 "2011-07-29T16:14:27Z")
Miko couldn’t have gotten as far as she did as a paladin and a monk without above-average wisdom. It wasn’t that she was unwise, it was that she was a self-righteous bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2364 "2011-07-29T20:16:45Z")
Objectively, she’s cast paladin spells (Cure Light Wounds, I think) which means she had a Wis of at least 11. Which is only a hair above average, but it is above. As an aside, that strip shows her as remarkably polite and reasonable, for Miko. She finds the plan of “whoever has the higher mod does the tracking” acceptable, and even when it turns out she has more ranks than Belkar, she still offers another avenue by which he might best her. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2365 "2011-07-29T20:35:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As an aside, that strip shows her as remarkably polite and reasonable, for Miko. She finds the plan of “whoever has the higher mod does the tracking” acceptable, and even when it turns out she has more ranks than Belkar, she still offers another avenue by which he might best her. Probably because none of that touched her hot button issues. A situation that, say, implied that Roy had better moral judgment than her or that Durkon had more divine favor might have had a different reaction. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2366 "2011-07-29T20:51:22Z")
Belkar’s lack of Tracking is explained in [On The Origin of PCs](http://www.amazon.com/Order-Stick-Origin-PCs-v/dp/0976658011/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311972654&sr=1-1). ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2367 "2011-07-29T21:07:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One of the Ranger class’s better known abilities is that they get the Track feat for free. The Track feat lets you make checks against your Survival skill (which is based on Wisdom) to track a quarry. Survival is a class skill for rangers, and they get a ton of skill points, so one can generally take it for granted that any given ranger has maxed out Survival, for use for tracking (hence Roy hiring Belkar as the party’s tracker). Belkar, however, doesn’t care about anything except killing, and so never bothered to put any points at all in it. > > Miko, by contrast, had to actually spend a feat on Track, a feat which could have been used for many other things (like, improving her combat ability in a variety of ways). And since Survival is a cross-class skill for all of her classes, she had to spend two points for each rank and has a lower maximum skill rank. Plus, her classes give fewer skill points per level than Belkar’s. So it really wouldn’t make sense for her to have very many ranks in Survival, and in fact, she herself says that she only has 1: So she _can_ track, but she’s really not very good at it. > > But compared to Belkar, her single skill rank gives her an edge over his none. Now, it would still be possible for Belkar to have an equal or greater total skill modifier, if his Wisdom bonus were greater than hers. But Miko’s Wisdom is at least a little above average, and Belkar’s is below average. So he’s _still_ worse than her. Thanks for the detailed explanation! > [@silenus](#): > > Belkar’s lack of Tracking is explained in [On The Origin of PCs](http://www.amazon.com/Order-Stick-Origin-PCs-v/dp/0976658011/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311972654&sr=1-1). Can you summarize? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2368 "2011-07-30T01:00:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Belkar, however, doesn’t care about anything except killing, and so never bothered to put any points at all in it. Belkar cares about sex and eating, and possibly cooking, as well as killing. And he cares about Mr. Scruffy. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2369 "2011-07-31T19:12:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Belkar’s lack of Tracking is explained in [On The Origin of PCs](http://www.amazon.com/Order-Stick-Origin-PCs-v/dp/0976658011/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1311972654&sr=1-1). IIRC, not really. It _says_ he doesn’t know how to track, in an off-hand comment, but it doesn’t give any reasons. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2370 "2011-07-31T19:28:43Z")
I went back and checked, and you are right. He just tells Roy to assume he can track and get the party on the road before the gaolers track him down. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2371 "2011-07-31T22:26:10Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I tried to find the appropriate TVtropes entry for this, but basically, getting punched through walls? Thrown across rooms? Bashed with walls? All in the day’s work for your normal hero. > > Remember, this is a world where getting whacked with a longsword is no big deal. You might be thinking of the [Worf Effect](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect), which dictates that the stronger and more badass a hero/PC you are, the more time you’re going to spend getting smacked around like a redhead stepchild to establish that this week’s villain is real powerful. Actually, that fits this whole scene. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2372 "2011-08-01T10:17:04Z")
[New comic!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0799.html) Looks like V has realized Lesson Number One in Fighting Evil Counterparts. And we’re just one away from the big 800! Woo! ETA: Oh, yeah, and yay for still breathing Mr. Scruffy! ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2373 "2011-08-01T12:19:48Z")
If Mr. Scruffy bites it, is there any way to raise him? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2374 "2011-08-01T14:06:48Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#): > > If Mr. Scruffy bites it, is there any way to raise him? Yes, you can raise him the same way you’d raise any other creature. Its only weird things like celestials, elementals, undead and constructs that are more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2375 "2011-08-01T17:02:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Looks like V has realized Lesson Number One in Fighting Evil Counterparts. Elan, of all people, seems to be the only one who’s figured out the secret - you avoid your counterpart and attack the weaknesses of another person’s counterpart. Interesting that we haven’t seen the sixth member of the Linear Guild revealed yet. And others have mentioned Durkon hasn’t appeared recently. So maybe 800’s big surprise will be Durkon and Hilgya. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2376 "2011-08-01T19:46:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So maybe 800’s big surprise will be Durkon and Hilgya. Surprise Dwarfsecks? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2377 "2011-08-01T20:37:40Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Surprise Dwarfsecks? That way the characters will be as surprised as us readers. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2378 "2011-08-01T21:26:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Elan, of all people, seems to be the only one who’s figured out the secret - you avoid your counterpart and attack the weaknesses of another person’s counterpart. It seems from today’s comic that V has realized it, though I suppose we’ll have to see. > [@](#): > > Interesting that we haven’t seen the sixth member of the Linear Guild revealed yet. Why do we think there are six? Or is it because there’s always six? > [@](#): > > and Hilgya. Yeah, I’ve been wondering if she was gonna make an appearance someday, considering her rushing off in tears something like 600 strips ago. I bet now she’s a dwarf ho’ with an attitude, all sportin’ piercings, a tramp stamp and a poleaxe, and out to get even on the Durk-meister. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2379 "2011-08-01T21:29:58Z")
And a baby dwarfling that kind of looks like Durkon. Or maybe still pregnant-- How long is dwarvish gestation? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2380 "2011-08-01T21:37:01Z")
I see V is still working on that “acknowledge Blackwing’s existance” thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=118) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=120)