# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2421 "2011-08-08T14:27:40Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Whoops, I must have been mixing him up with the other “evil opposite”, the half-elf guy. Nope, also a wizard (he was Roy’s sister’s classmate, remember?). The only sorcerers we’ve seen so far are that female bandit chieftain from way back, Nale (multiclass), and of course, the big X. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2422 "2011-08-08T15:20:25Z")
Even though Yik-Yik is pretty tiny, how is Varsuvius holding him up with those scrawny wizard arms? Does the flight spell act as a bubble, affecting things around the wizard as well? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2423 "2011-08-08T15:25:01Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Besides the cleverness of V’s idea, I can’t help but wonder if this is a setup for Yukyuk to replace Belkar after Belkar’s death, which should be soon, relatively speaking. I _would_ have taken that as forshadowing for when Sexy Shoeless bites it… …but he shot Mr. Scruffy. Never mind Mr. Scruffy’s near-universal fandom- just the casual cruelty to animals. Fans will not stand for it. Not that the Giant generally cares what his readers think, but I can see people getting up and leaving if Yukyuk joins the team. Unless Rich comes up with a very, very good explanation as to why he shoots cats. EDIT: I suppose if Yukyuk thought Mr. Scruffy was Belkar’s Companion, and thus a danger to him- but Belkar wasn’t around. Even if he knew Belkar had a cat sidekick, for all he knows Mr. Scruffy is a random arena cat. Besides, he looked like he was having way too much fun hurting cats. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2424 "2011-08-08T15:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Waiting for my big ole’ nerd badge. Oh, I think you earned that a long time ago. 😉 > [@](#): > > Besides, he looked like he was having way too much fun hurting cats. Does Belkar get off on hurting/killing animals? I can’t think of any instance where he actually ENJOYS hurting or killing animals. Sure, he’ll kill something for dinner, but I don’t think he takes any glee in it. Nope, that’s reserved for killing sentient critters. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2425 "2011-08-08T15:44:06Z")
Yukyuk has called “Sneak Attack” on the attacks made of his own volition, too. He’s apparently dipped at least one level of rogue. And two of the hits were sneak attacks, so add at least another 2d6 to the damage Z’s taken. While Z probably does have an Armor spell active (it’s a low-level spell with a nice long duration, and never hurts), that doesn’t absorb hits, it just makes hits marginally less likely (the same as actual armor). A high-level high-BAB character like Yukyuk won’t have too much trouble with that (as evidenced by 7 out of 9 hitting). And the Giant has consistently shown folks flying carrying more than they ought to be able to, based on any reasonable extrapolation of their strength scores. It’s apparently a houserule of his. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2426 "2011-08-08T15:50:13Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I can’t think of any instance where he actually ENJOYS hurting or killing animals. There was Mika’s horse. He may have ended up never actually doing anything to it but he certainly enjoyed planning to hurt or kill it. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2427 "2011-08-08T15:52:27Z")
V is actually smiling in that last panel. We know that can’t last. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2428 "2011-08-08T15:56:42Z")
For those who have **the book** , any idea when the edition battle is set? I’m not a D&D player so I don’t know when the fourth edition came out. But I see the characters are still in their old appearances. And the fourth edition Elan looks like the current third edition Elan and the fourth edition Haley and Vaarsuvius also have some traits that would later be adopted by their regular counterparts. I’m also hoping to see the evil snail appear in the regular strip. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2429 "2011-08-08T15:56:44Z")
That wasn’t a regular horse, though, it was a paladin’s steed, so it’s not a normal animal. Plus, it was associated with Miko, and we all know how Belkar feels about Miko. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2430 "2011-08-08T16:48:38Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > That wasn’t a regular horse, though, it was a paladin’s steed, so it’s not a normal animal. Plus, it was associated with Miko, and we all know how Belkar feels about Miko. But we had this great [strip](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html), where we see Belkar arguing with a horse. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2431 "2011-08-08T17:21:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > For those who have **the book** , any idea when the edition battle is set? I’m not a D&D player so I don’t know when the fourth edition came out. The Dragon strips were roughly concurrent with book 2 of the online strip, but they weren’t really considered part of the official continuity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2432 "2011-08-08T17:47:38Z")
Best (as in most hiliarious) strip of this arc so far-that poor goblin with his spiral eyes almost had me on the floor this morning. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2433 "2011-08-08T18:06:31Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Best (as in most hiliarious) strip of this arc so far-that poor goblin with his spiral eyes almost had me on the floor this morning. Kobold, actually. All of the Y\_ky\_k’s have been kobolds. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2434 "2011-08-08T18:30:58Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Even though Yik-Yik is pretty tiny, how is Varsuvius holding him up with those scrawny wizard arms? Does the flight spell act as a bubble, affecting things around the wizard as well? Your average Kobold only weighs ~45 pounds. According to the rules, even if V only had a Strength of 5, he could still carry Yik-Yik around. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2435 "2011-08-08T18:45:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yukyuk has called “Sneak Attack” on the attacks made of his own volition, too. He’s apparently dipped at least one level of rogue. And two of the hits were sneak attacks, so add at least another 2d6 to the damage Z’s taken. I was wondering about that. For folks with lots of attacks (rapid-shooters, monks, and 2weapon fighter-types), 1 or 3 levels of rogue is an excellent multiclass option, sacrificing 1 BAB (plus 1 or 3 levels of class skills) for 3.5 or 7 extra points of damage on most attacks. Often a very worthwhile tradeoff. This is extra-true for small creatures with their penalty to strength (not an issue for YukYuk or whatever his name is, since crossbows don’t apply strength to damage). ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2436 "2011-08-08T18:47:31Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Your average Kobold only weighs ~45 pounds. According to the rules, even if V only had a Strength of 5, he could still carry Yik-Yik around. Is it sad that I feel better for knowing this? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2437 "2011-08-11T03:20:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Assume the lowest favored enemy and GMW, and he’s still doing 1d4+6 with each hit. If Zz’dtri got hit 7 times, that’s 7d4+42, or 49-70 points of damage, av. 59.5 damage. If he has 69 HP, things are looking grim. At these levels, any wizard who hasn’t a spell slot reserved for Stoneskin (or Greater) at all times is a dumbass, bitchass, soon-to-be-deadass wizard. So what if it costs 250 (IIRC) gold per casting ? Go fireball a troll cave after breakfast or something. In other news, I’m tickled by the fact that, while V did finally get to thinking laterally and solving his problems with brains rather than just moar dakka… he still figures the easiest and most convenient plan is not to call for his own teammates’ help, but mind control a handy mook for his own self, thankyouverymuch. That speaks volumes, doesn’t it ? Pointy ears still got a lot to learn. Team play is the true path to power. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2438 "2011-08-11T03:43:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > In other news, I’m tickled by the fact that, while V did finally get to thinking laterally and solving his problems with brains rather than just moar dakka… he still figures the easiest and most convenient plan is not to call for his own teammates’ help, but mind control a handy mook for his own self, thankyouverymuch. > That speaks volumes, doesn’t it ? Pointy ears still got a lot to learn. Team play is the true path to power. That hardly seems fair. Two of the team are locked up in the arena, one has been turned to stone, and the other one is known to be heading in the direction of the cleric to get help. They’re pretty much fully booked for the afternoon. And if V just cuts and run, then the dark elf is free to go after Elan. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2439 "2011-08-11T04:29:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Team play is the true path to power. Team play’s even better if you can compel your enemies to join your team. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2440 "2011-08-11T05:28:03Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > That hardly seems fair. Two of the team are locked up in the arena, one has been turned to stone, and the other one is known to be heading in the direction of the cleric to get help. They’re pretty much fully booked for the afternoon. And if V just cuts and run, then the dark elf is free to go after Elan. Who says the elf has to be dealt with right just this minute ? He’s not threatening anybody but V, is he ? V said so himself: his spell repertoire, his gear, even his feats are tailored specifically for that mage duel. I doubt he’s making much headway versus anyone else, not even Elan now that he’s gotten halfway competent. Not to mention that whatever Nale’s plan is, it pretty clearly involves V getting taken out or at least tied down by the drow. Which means the last thing V should want to be doing is being tied down fighting the drow. Besides, Z wouldn’t “be free to go after Elan”. If V bugged out, Z would be free to go after Elan backed by V, see ? V knows where Elan is going and Z doesn’t fly any faster so at worst they reach Elan at the same time. In that scenario, V could still pop a Suggestion on the kobold, still plow through Zd’ritti with his smarts and still do whatever else he can do on his own - all with a +2s or +3s to everything & damage/spell resistance even if all Elan does is sing a tune (or something like that, I’m not really up to speed on bard song mechanics because honestly, who plays a bard ? :p) Point is: if you’re a team, whenever there’s trouble you always always try to regroup first thing. It makes no sense to try and fight your own battles. 'sides, it makes it easier on the DM not to have to parallel task 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=123)