# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2441 "2011-08-12T12:23:41Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > 'sides, it makes it easier on the DM not to have to parallel task šŸ˜ƒ First rule of D&D: Donā€™t piss off the DM\* Second: Beware a chortling DM. \*That leads to the corollary of _Donā€™t split the party._ ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2442 "2011-08-12T12:49:23Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > It makes no sense to try and fight your own battles. Sometimes it does. Whether itā€™s because they have weaknesses that might be used to empower the enemy (a low Will save vs. Dominate Person, or a lack of flight vs. an Uber-tank Crusader), or just because you can put down enough indiscriminate carnage to solo the entire enemy army (like a Sandstorm-optimised Stormlord), sometimes itā€™s better to fight alone. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2443 "2011-08-15T20:27:42Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > At these levels, any wizard who hasnā€™t a spell slot reserved for Stoneskin (or Greater) at all times is a dumbass, bitchass, soon-to-be-deadass wizard. So what if it costs 250 (IIRC) gold per casting ? Go fireball a troll cave after breakfast or something. Except that he was optimizing to fight V, thus the turn to stone on Haley. If the plan is ambush the ranged damage and nullify them, while staying out of range of the melee, skip the Stoneskin and go with the spells that nullify the only one that can reach you, the wizard. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2444 "2011-08-16T11:58:06Z")
[New one is up!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0801.html) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2445 "2011-08-16T12:04:54Z")
OK, so it was Elanā€™s crew who were scrying on the party back in [698](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). But how did they know they were there? Who, exactly, are they involved with? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2446 "2011-08-16T12:05:39Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > [New one is up!](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0801.html) Ninjaed! Itā€™s another corker. And Elan uses his brain for once! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2447 "2011-08-16T12:31:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > OK, so it was Elanā€™s crew who were scrying on the party back in [698](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html). But how did they know they were there? Who, exactly, are they involved with? IIRC, at the end of the V-gets-ultimate-power-and-destroys-thousands-of-dragons arc, the Three Fiends are shown to have the Linear Guild as backup. So itā€™s likely theyā€™re working for Evil, Inc. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2448 "2011-08-16T17:24:47Z")
That was, again, really genre-savvy of Elan. I love this device; that Elan can predict and understand whatā€™s going on because he understand the that his universe runs on laws of dramatics. Itā€™s fun both as a satirical way to make fun of cheesy plots and a creative way to have a character interact with a world. Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2449 "2011-08-16T17:44:54Z")
I love how Elan is reaching around the door to hand over the sword. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2450 "2011-08-16T17:48:00Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > That was, again, really genre-savvy of Elan. I love this device; that Elan can predict and understand whatā€™s going on because he understand the that his universe runs on laws of dramatics. Itā€™s fun both as a satirical way to make fun of cheesy plots and a creative way to have a character interact with a world. Great stuff. The only problem is that Elan is not in a typical story. If he was in a run-of-the-mill fantasy epic, heā€™d own it because the author would probably be following all of the usual cliches. But Burlew often goes out of his way to defy the cliches. So Elan is probably going to get caught out one day when he expects some dramatically logical thing to happen and it doesnā€™t. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2451 "2011-08-16T18:36:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The only problem is that Elan is not in a typical story. If he was in a run-of-the-mill fantasy epic, heā€™d own it because the author would probably be following all of the usual cliches. But Burlew often goes out of his way to defy the cliches. So Elan is probably going to get caught out one day when he expects some dramatically logical thing to happen and it doesnā€™t. Things of that sort have happened; [ā€œAwww, man. I didnā€™t know _I_ was gonna be the girl!ā€](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0590.html). And when they first fought Xykon he [blew up the dungeon](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0118.html), apparently because the evil mastermindā€™s lair blowing up is what is supposed to happen. Although he seems to be getting better. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2452 "2011-08-17T03:40:58Z")
[Another example](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0663.html) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2453 "2011-08-17T22:39:03Z")
ā€œlast week youā€™re hundreds of miles away in the middle of the desert.ā€ And yet somehow it seems like so much more than a week since the were in the desert. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2454 "2011-08-18T01:26:31Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > ā€œlast week youā€™re hundreds of miles away in the middle of the desert.ā€ > > And yet somehow it seems like so much more than a week since the were in the desert. Well, we know Roy was arrested less than a week ago, probably less than 5 days, since the fight heā€™s in is a ā€œspecial mid-weekā€ bout. And Nale was scrying on the group as they left the wrong location of the gate heading for this town. So a week seems plausible. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2455 "2011-08-18T01:47:31Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > And Nale was scrying on the group as they left the wrong location of the gate heading for this town. So a week seems plausible. Zzā€™dtri, actually. I believe the [color of the scrying magic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) was the same as the [color of the Z-personā€™s magic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) in the recent duel strips. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2456 "2011-08-18T04:01:34Z")
Iā€™m still not sure about that. The scrying sensor was pointed at Mr. Scruffy, not any of the humanoids of the party, which means that the scryer was either looking for Scruffy specifically, or at the location where Scruffy happened to be sitting. If it were one of Naleā€™s team doing the scrying, it would make much more sense to make Elan or Roy the object of the spell, and Nale would have no reason to be interested in that one particular spot of the vast desert. It makes more sense that the scryer would be someone associated with Girard or Serini, who were just notified about the trap going off, as everyone had assumed prior to this strip. Which probably means that Girardā€™s organization is leakier than heā€™d like to think, and that word has gotten from them to Nale (possibly from whomever won the bet, on their celebratory shopping trip). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2457 "2011-08-18T04:08:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Iā€™m still not sure about that. The scrying sensor was pointed at Mr. Scruffy, not any of the humanoids of the party, which means that the scryer was either looking for Scruffy specifically, or at the location where Scruffy happened to be sitting. If it were one of Naleā€™s team doing the scrying, it would make much more sense to make Elan or Roy the object of the spell, and Nale would have no reason to be interested in that one particular spot of the vast desert. It makes more sense that the scryer would be someone associated with Girard or Serini, who were just notified about the trap going off, as everyone had assumed prior to this strip. Which probably means that Girardā€™s organization is leakier than heā€™d like to think, and that word has gotten from them to Nale (possibly from whomever won the bet, on their celebratory shopping trip). Burlew does seem to be pretty consistent about having the various colors for magic effects match their caster. I donā€™t think, for example, weā€™ve ever seen any pink spell effects from a caster other than V. He might have used blue as a catch all for any caster from Azure City, but other than that, the similarity in colors between the drow casterā€™s spells, and the scrying eye in the desert seems to be a pretty big hint. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2458 "2011-08-18T04:24:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Zzā€™dtri, actually. I believe the [color of the scrying magic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html) was the same as the [color of the Z-personā€™s magic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html) in the recent duel strips. I meant ā€œsomeone from Naleā€™s groupā€ earlier. Sure, Z-person. Whom we didnā€™t know was still an active force until lately, so that makes the green scrying-eye a pretty good foreshadowing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2459 "2011-08-18T10:44:50Z")
The advantage of scrying on Mr Scruffy is that he isnā€™t likely to have any protective devices or spells in effect, whereas the rest of them, being high-level adventurers, might. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2460 "2011-08-18T13:17:55Z")
But how would they know about Mr Scruffy in the first place? More logically, they were scrying on the location, and Mr Scruffy just happened to be the one who saw the sensor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=122) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=124)