# Order of the Stick - Book 5 Discussion Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323 "2009-08-31T04:09:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2482 "2011-08-23T06:18:41Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > If we’re going by the rules, we can assume that Z was hastily thinking of ANYWHERE before he dropped, which happened to be the Semi-Elemental plane of Ranch Dressing… for some reason. Maybe Z had salad the previous night? To cast Plane Shift you need to have a focus specific to the target plane, so just thinking of anywhere wouldn’t cut it. So, since Z had to have a focus aligned with the Semi-Elemental plane of Ranch Dressing, we’ve got three possibilities: 1. Z makes forked metal rods when he has the time and uses plane shifts just to see where they go. He had one he hadn’t tried before, and hit V with it rather than risk going to an unknown plane himself. 2. Z knew this focus was aligned with the Semi-Elemental plane of Ranch Dressing, and picked it just to annoy V. 3. Z really did have salad the previous night and for some reason still had a salad fork on his person. The spell required a forked metal rod as a focus… ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2483 "2011-08-23T12:39:44Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > … for some reason. Maybe Z had salad the previous night? Z and V are both elf-types. Of _course_ they had salad the previous night! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2484 "2011-08-23T12:43:45Z")
Z’s a drow, though, so his salad was probably composed of vegepygmies and myconids. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2485 "2011-08-23T13:10:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Z’s a drow, though, so his salad was probably composed of vegepygmies and myconids. Salad’s always better when it screams. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2486 "2011-08-23T13:23:34Z")
Salad scream? No thanks - I’ll stick with the ranch. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2487 "2011-08-23T14:17:42Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I remember this Ranch Dressing appearing before. Possibly as a sarcastic thing V said. Are you thinking of the butterscotch pudding monster? > **[565 The Test of the Memory - Giant in the Playground Games](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0565.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2488 "2011-08-29T18:14:57Z")
Am I really the first to notice that a new strip is up? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2489 "2011-08-29T18:24:20Z")
Interesting that Roy was getting the upper hand before the dog “arrived.” Thog’s rage must have been wearing off before it was re-ignited. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2490 "2011-08-29T19:20:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Am I really the first to notice that a new strip is up? [Link](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0803.html). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2491 "2011-08-29T19:42:08Z")
Haley _will_, of course, notice that one of her shineys is missing. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2492 "2011-08-29T19:50:08Z")
I forget, How did haley end up with Roy’s gear? Wasn’t it confiscated when he was arrested? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2493 "2011-08-29T20:30:40Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I forget, How did haley end up with Roy’s gear? Wasn’t it confiscated when he was arrested? Roy told her to pick up his and Belkar’s equipment when she left him last, in the gladiator barracks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2494 "2011-08-29T21:40:36Z")
Oh, and this one does explain how V ended up on a plane so relatively innocuous (albeit humiliating), rather than someplace that would kill em instantly. I had been rather wondering about that. ---
**Author:** ![Ura-Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/51bf81/32.png) [@Ura-Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ura-Maru)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2495 "2011-08-30T03:57:29Z")
Improved Grapple is actually a pretty good feat, though it’s not likely Roy has the dex for it. Fighters do have feats to play with, and he seems the type to go for the ‘when it’s useful, its’ awesome, but most of the time it’s not’ feats trees. (Great Cleave?!) Or maybe it’s just some twaddle about the human spirit and the strength of righteousness. – Oh, and BELTS OF GIANT STRENGTH DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!! (in 3.5) Mr. Scruffy with said belt would still only have a strength of 9. That’s about equal to your average kobold, wizard, or Justine Joli. (They DID work that way in previous editions, as any _ **Baldur’s Gate** _ player can confirm) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2496 "2011-08-30T04:02:41Z")
Rule of Cool trumps all. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2497 "2011-08-30T04:52:27Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > Improved Grapple is actually a pretty good feat, though it’s not likely Roy has the dex for it. Improved Grapple isn’t that good; the problem is that many big bads are _big_ (getting up to a _+16_ size modifier) and superhumanly strong, or otherwise bad to grapple. You can certainly abuse grappling to do horrible or hilarious things to the enemy (like one character who could stop a charge with a one-handed chokeslam), but you generally need things like Improved Grab, size modifiers or grafts to make it work. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2498 "2011-08-30T04:53:15Z")
> [@Ura-Maru](#): > > Oh, and BELTS OF GIANT STRENGTH DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!! (in 3.5) Mr. Scruffy with said belt would still only have a strength of 9. That’s about equal to your average kobold, wizard, or Justine Joli. (They DID work that way in previous editions, as any _ **Baldur’s Gate** _ player can confirm) > [@silenus](#): > > Rule of Cool trumps all. And it’s entirely possible that the subject will come up and Roy or V will toss off a line like “Oh? It must have been left over from a previous edition.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2499 "2011-08-30T06:50:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Improved Grapple isn’t that good; the problem is that many big bads are _big_ (getting up to a _+16_ size modifier) and superhumanly strong, or otherwise bad to grapple. You can certainly abuse grappling to do horrible or hilarious things to the enemy (like one character who could stop a charge with a one-handed chokeslam), but you generally need things like Improved Grab, size modifiers or grafts to make it work. Yup. Playing a monk these days (well, a monk/druid) and I’m being made painfully aware of the fact that while grappling is on paper super awesome to disable the enemy cleric or wizard, in practice the enemy cleric or wizard is more often than not an enlarged Stone Giant. With an empowered Vampiric Touch pre-cast. The rat bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2500 "2011-08-30T17:25:27Z")
Given that Roy’s big bad is medium-sized, has a poor BAB, and isn’t ludicrously strong, Improved Grapple might actually be a good choice, for him. And Mr. Scruffy didn’t knock the hole in the wall; that was one of the holes Thog made. Mr. Scruffy just shoved Sir Scraggly through it. It’s plausible for a 9 Str cat to pull that off, if the wolf isn’t expecting it. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323/2501 "2011-08-30T18:12:39Z")
And wolves aren’t good with saving throws. Their paws have a hard time gripping the dice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/order-of-the-stick-book-5-discussion-thread/508323.md?page=126)